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7 Jun 2017, 09:26 (Ref:3739193) | #1 | ||
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GT3 v's Supercar v's SuperTouring v's TCR - The Ultimate Thread
Hypothetically if Supercars were to acquire AGT could that open the route to SuperGT specfications?
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15 Jun 2017, 08:05 (Ref:3741545) | #2 | |
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Yeah put gt3 in the bin, supercars spend big $$$ chasing a few horsepower, that's the way forward, that's motorsport. Can't see why new/old manufacturer interest is waning, meh, probably unrelated
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15 Jun 2017, 09:42 (Ref:3741555) | #3 | |
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Isnt that one of the key reasons why manufactuers are getting into gt4. The gt3 cars were getting too expensive as they chase HP, aero and weight. that they have now had to get into lower cost cars as they were starting to get out of the price of the common person
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15 Jun 2017, 11:44 (Ref:3741587) | #4 | ||
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Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. |
15 Jun 2017, 11:51 (Ref:3741593) | #5 | |||
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Unfortunately some of the sporting regulations including minimum pit stop times and driver seedings go against this notation of professionalism. It is very much in the spirit of splendid amateurism prevalent in the British army tank regiments of the Second World War. Apologies if this analogy is too obscure, but I can't think of another comparison. I follow AGT and have followed sports car racing in Australia for many years. And for most of those years the gentleman driver didn't need minimum pit stop times or driver seedings to be competitive. |
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"Your biggest auto race may one day become a Camaro playground", Chris Economaki, Bathurst 1979 |
15 Jun 2017, 12:16 (Ref:3741603) | #6 | ||
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No offence meant Peckstar but for lack of a better word I fail to see how theirs any validity to your labelling of GT3, as an exemplar look at the Am-Am class from this years Bathurst 12 hour it was fully professional through and through you had the likes of Jamie Whincup partnering with Toni Vilander . Of course yes there's gentleman racers their they are integral part of GT3 but to label it as not real Motorsport is not a fair summation in my view, I hope I have not offended you
Last edited by PS2244; 15 Jun 2017 at 12:30. |
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15 Jun 2017, 13:52 (Ref:3741641) | #7 | ||
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I can only suspect that the minimum performance level set by the FIA and tested each September for homologation is a constantly moving goal post that is forcing GT3 speeds up every few years - hence the GT-R, Jaguar and Bentley beginning to drop off. It is reaching a point of unsustainable cost escalation, however - but I am sceptical every dollar and dime received on a GT3 car only just covers the cost to build it... Most are only adding GT4 to their inventory (and TCR in some instances) to capture greater market share. GT4 Europe is still predominantly contested by tuner built models and legacy one-make cars - with the Cayman MR and McLaren 570s slowly starting to take over. GT4 still costs a bomb - $250k plus for a raft of newer models - well out of reach of most normal people (as is TCR - $100k + is not something most people have laying about for toys). |
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15 Jun 2017, 18:16 (Ref:3741796) | #8 | |||
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A lot of work and expense can be thrown at an engine even with a 'capped' power output. Engine builders and tuners can spend plenty chasing the delivery of that power, ie where and how it makes it, tractability etc while still arriving at the same peak output as the next bloke. Engine power delivery can be very specifically and carefully designed for each track. Others may choose to operate a basic config designed for high mileage for instance. I could continue to elaborate but hopefully you are starting to grasp the concept that others are discussing and have a more considerate response 👍 Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk |
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15 Jun 2017, 21:43 (Ref:3742004) | #9 | ||
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15 Jun 2017, 23:05 (Ref:3742039) | #10 | |||
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Those suggesting that a capped power output means no development simply have no idea what they're talking about. |
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
16 Jun 2017, 06:51 (Ref:3742098) | #11 | |
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About time we had a hang-$#!+-on-everything thread.
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16 Jun 2017, 06:54 (Ref:3742099) | #12 | ||
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Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
16 Jun 2017, 06:55 (Ref:3742100) | #13 | |
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It needed to happen.
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16 Jun 2017, 06:55 (Ref:3742101) | #14 | ||
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I just don't understand this one or another mentality I'm sorry why can't we just love both categories lol
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16 Jun 2017, 06:58 (Ref:3742102) | #15 | |
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16 Jun 2017, 14:42 (Ref:3742224) | #16 | ||
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It would have been a lot of fun to see 2000cc as the elite Australian category from 1993 up to 1999-2001 odd. Just think Bob Holden Toyota Carinas, Winfield Nissan Primeras, Mobil 1 Cavaliers, Valvoline Alfa Romeos, Peter Jackson Alfa Romeos, Shell FAI Mondeos, Orix Audis, Coca-Cola BMWs, Peugeots, Volvos... all going wheel to wheel -- bliss! A certain missed opportunity to not adopt the booming British 2000cc regulations and keep Nissan happy and racing at the front of the field! Not to mention de-turboed Sierras being a good package for privateers too with their lovely Cosworth motor. Not to mention another privateer favourite, E30 M3s reduced to 2000cc --- now an all-time classic car and highly, highly desirable and collectable! Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 16 Jun 2017 at 14:48. |
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16 Jun 2017, 17:30 (Ref:3742272) | #17 | |
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If Supercars switches to GT3 probably - except for Bathurst - I will lose interest.
It becomes just a GT series like there are many. |
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16 Jun 2017, 22:40 (Ref:3742360) | #18 | |||
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Then we have the cost of developing such a car and if you want to sell 20-30 per annum then you must have customer support like the three big Germans have now because you might have a good car but if you don't have the after sales support then you wont sell the car in great numbers. Have a look at the Callaway Corvette. Great car, it wins in GT Masters which is one of the most heavily contested national GT series in the world and yet there no cars elsewhere. Some of that is down to the production capacity of the team which is quite small but they don't have the resources to support teams all over the world. And thus people buy a Merc or an Audi instead. Which is a crying shame as the Corvettes a good car. Those Aussie companies you mention don't have the resources or capacity to do that. And basing one's self in Australia is not helpful when the majority of your market is in Europe I get that. Part of the draw of Supercars for me is those cars are unique, they're big and loud but that appeal is waning with the direction the category is taking. The Mustang ticks all those boxes and if it doesn't appear then its a missed opportunity for the category, it really is. |
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Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly." |
16 Jun 2017, 23:12 (Ref:3742366) | #19 | ||
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The Jerk Store rang... |
16 Jun 2017, 23:16 (Ref:3742367) | #20 | ||
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But a massive backwards step |
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18 Jun 2017, 19:24 (Ref:3744944) | #21 | ||
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18 Jun 2017, 21:56 (Ref:3744994) | #22 | |
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19 Jun 2017, 05:12 (Ref:3745064) | #23 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
If the entire field of cars is within 1-2 seconds of each other as it is now, you won't be able to tell that they are slower. |
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Supercars isn't the sport. The sport is motor racing. |
19 Jun 2017, 07:47 (Ref:3745091) | #24 | ||
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I'm not sure what "Pace is relative, not absolute" really means, sounds like some new age thing that sounds great but means little, but ok that's awesome. I suspect it will mean that the long term fans will leave in droves. Reading the super ute thread is would seem speed is more important than you are thinking Neither TCR or Gt4 is achieving the 1-2 seconds a you mentioned. But based on your theory maybe we should just have production cars. Relatively cheap, parts available reasonably easily. Lots of brands Maybe just a hot hatch series might be the way to go Last edited by peckstar; 19 Jun 2017 at 08:02. |
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19 Jun 2017, 08:05 (Ref:3745103) | #25 | |
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