Towing Trailers and the Tacho Law

[Scooby 96]

New risk of fines for towing trailer users


Van operators risk being stung by a £200 on-the-spot fine if they are caught using a low-loader trailer with a tow vehicle that has not been fitted with a tachograph, the Retail Motor Industry Federation has warned.
The regulation also covers heavy 4x4 cars as well as commercial vehicles that are towing trailers. It has been in force for many years, but has only been enforced since May when the Vehicle & Operator Services Agency introduced a new fixed penalty regime.
Operators could be caught out if they believe their tow vehicle is too light to require a tachograph. The law states that a tow vehicle can have a gross vehicle weight up to 3,500kgs without a tachograph being required. However, when towing a trailer these vehicles their gross combination weight will exceed 3,500kgs. Therefore, the tow vehicle has to be fitted and operated with a tachograph.
“Traffic enforcement officers are now issuing spot fines at the roadside, and a number of companies have already been fined,” said the RMIF’s Sue Robinson. “To avoid incurring the £200 charge, consider fitting a tachograph on any tow vehicle that is likely to be used in combination with a low-loader.”

I know this subject has been aired in the past but it looks now that ANY van or Pick-up and trailer with overall weight of 3500kg needs a Tacho. Am awaiting confirmation from VOSA if this applies to 'Private ' vehicles' or just Company vans and Pick-ups. Any ideas............?

[Tim Falce]

This as been law for ages, nothing new but it only affects those engaged in hire and reward operations. If you are towing your own vehicle you don't need a tachograph

[Rovcoup]

A friend of mine got caught a couple of months ago towing a trailer with a transit recovery truck by vosa now he has a tacho fitted, i did warn him ages ago he didnt get a fine but wasnt allowed to carry on with the trailer though.This wasnt private use by the way.

[265jaguar37]

obviously my truck is well over 3500kg's but every year at the mot its declared as tachograph exempt as its a private hgv and is not used for hire or reward , ive always towed with it , and my argument is that my old fashioned paper license entitles me to tow with an hgv up to a gross vehicle train mass no bigger than 8250 kg's , hope this helps somebody.

[Copperbottom]

Originally Posted by 265jaguar37

obviously my truck is well over 3500kg's a gross vehicle train mass no bigger than 8250 kg's

That means that you're breaking the law unless you've got a class2 licence,that only allows you to tow 750kgs your caravan is over 1000kgs max weight!

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by 265jaguar37

obviously my truck is well over 3500kg's but every year at the mot its declared as tachograph exempt as its a private hgv and is not used for hire or reward , ive always towed with it , and my argument is that my old fashioned paper license entitles me to tow with an hgv up to a gross vehicle train mass no bigger than 8250 kg's , hope this helps somebody.

Originally Posted by Copperbottom

That means that you're breaking the law unless you've got a class2 licence,that only allows you to tow 750kgs your caravan is over 1000kgs max weight!

The answer is in "Old fashioned paper licence" which means he took his test well before 1997 when the 750kg trailer and 3500kg gross train weight rule came in.

[Robert Morris]

Originally Posted by 265jaguar37

obviously my truck is well over 3500kg's but every year at the mot its declared as tachograph exempt as its a private hgv and is not used for hire or reward , ive always towed with it , and my argument is that my old fashioned paper license entitles me to tow with an hgv up to a gross vehicle train mass no bigger than 8250 kg's , hope this helps somebody.

Ken is your license like mine where you can drive a lorry upto 7500kilos plus tow up to 750 kilos with a maxium train lenght of 42 ft.
however if you tow with your motor home or horse box i belive the lenght is different.
The later type licence where the driving test was taken after 1998 ?you can only drive/ tow upto 3500 kilos and that does include motor homes.
The rest of our crew are having to take an extra test

[greasy stick]

This is the fact - you will only need to have a tachograph fitted if you are operating the car/van & trailer as part of your business, such as a racing team, or carrying race cars for customers.

However, about 4 years ago I was stopped driving my Shogun and aluminium covered twin axle trailer with F3 inside on the A50 coming home from Mallory. The policeman had got it totally wrong and tried to say it was a business as I had a team (even had logos on the side) and tried to pass it off as OK only because I was driving both the race car and road car, even looked at my race licence. He said if I had asked my mechanic to drive the car he could have given me a ticket. Although he agreed that if we were all going camping for the weekend and just happened to have the car in the back it would be private use! Of course he had got it all totally wrong, but it would have just taken ages to convince him.

If you are running a truck 7.5t or above as part of your business you will or need a tacho and Operators Licence. (although I'm not sure at the moment if this applies to a 3.5t van & trailer). Just to further muddy the waters...if you are running a race team as a business and carry fuel, gas bottles or any other sort of Dangerous Goods the driver will need some sort of ADR awareness training. (unless its in Limited Quantities, & fuel wouldn't be.). If you were carrying, say, 75 litres of fuel in cans the driver would need to have some ADR awareness training, its about a 3 hour course.

[Tim Falce]

There is no class 2 any more, it's just C1 and C1+E or CE or whatever.
It wont matter how heavy his trailer/caravan is providing he doesn't exceed the maximum plated weight of his tow vehicle.

[Copperbottom]

Originally Posted by falcemob

It wont matter how heavy his trailer/caravan is providing he doesn't exceed the maximum plated weight of his tow vehicle.

Umm yes it does,the max on an older car (non hgv) licence is 7500kgs + 750kgs trailer so he can't tow more than 750kgs behind his 7500kg truck WITHOUT passing his hgv test.

http://www.licencecheck.co.uk/category_codes.php


Lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailerup to 750kg. C1 18 3
Medium Sized vehicles with trailers
Lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer over 750kg - total weight not more than 12000kg (if you passed your category B test prior to 1.1.1997 you will be restricted to a total weight not more than 8250kg). C1+E 21 3

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Copperbottom

Umm yes it does,the max on an older car (non hgv) licence is 7500kgs + 750kgs trailer so he can't tow more than 750kgs behind his 7500kg truck WITHOUT passing his hgv test.

http://www.licencecheck.co.uk/category_codes.php


Lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailerup to 750kg. C1 18 3
Medium Sized vehicles with trailers
Lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer over 750kg - total weight not more than 12000kg (if you passed your category B test prior to 1.1.1997 you will be restricted to a total weight not more than 8250kg). C1+E 21 3

Whether he is restricted to a gross train weight of 8250kg or not there is northing to say the weight of the trailer can't exceed 750kg providing the GTW is no more than 8250kg if he passed his test before 1.1.97.

[Robert Morris]

Well got to say this best thread we had in ages.
Is there not another law where the unladen weight of the towing vechile has to be a percentage greater than that being towed?

[Copperbottom]

Originally Posted by Robert Morris

Is there not another law where the unladen weight of the towing vechile has to be a percentage greater than that being towed?

Nope,for private cars (including 4x4s) legally you can NOT tow more than the kerbweight OR manufacturers' limit (whichever is lower).

For commercials,(vans/pick ups included) you can't tow more than the design tow weight or train weight.

[markjtaylor]

Not to do with law and weights. Others may be intersted to know this information regarding a pendulum trailer. I tow with a dodge ram pick up, laughably the engine in this being a big Hemi produces more power and torque than my race car!!. I have bought an old fully enclosed trailer with triple axles, perhaps due to location of axles or weight, not sure which it was 'all over the shop' at 50MPH. Now with a Bulldog fitted, an anti sway type of mechanism, this has stopped, we can now tow at well over 70 if we want to and it all stays in a straight line. Hopefully a usefull tip if anybody has this problem

[markjtaylor]

I am sure that we should not use this forum to promote or advertise business for either for ourselves or others. However, when I had my earlier mentioned towing problems with my 'whiplash trailer', I trawled the net and found the following company, Website Watling-towbars.co.uk. They were very pleasant to deal with and came up with a solution for me on my Dodge Ram, I would really highly reccomend them, rare that you can do this often in the 'rip-off' environmant that we live. Can not remember what it cost, but it certainly was not prohibitive.
Anybody who has suffered this problem while towing will know the anxiety this causes, also the frustration of towing long distances at low speed to avoid the problem.
I recall the first time towing the trailer with the car on board etc, 48 mph for a journey of over 100 miles, what fun!!
Another issue is tyre pressures in trailer tyres, they should be checked frequently, if the tyres are 'trailer tyres' the requisite pressure they should run at is stamped on the tyre wall.

[markjtaylor]

No wonder my neighbours are pleased to see me go racing, this lot leaves our rather small cul-de-sac of just seven houses, they can park where they like.

[Copperbottom]

Originally Posted by falcemob

Whether he is restricted to a gross train weight of 8250kg or not there is northing to say the weight of the trailer can't exceed 750kg providing the GTW is no more than 8250kg if he passed his test before 1.1.97.

Yes but Ken tows with a 7.5tonne (max) truck therefore he cannot tow in excess of 750kgs. GTW = GROSS TRAIN WEIGHT That is the max weights of both truck and trailer combined or plated train/design weights of both.
IE: Gross weight of truck: 7500kgs.

Gross (Design)weight of caravan: 1300kgs

Equals: 8800kgs so it's 550kgs over the allowable train weight
It doesn't matter if when they're loaded the weight is less than 8250kg it's the design weights that the police will go by.

[Rovcoup]

Its all got to be under 8250kg with grandfather rights(before 97) thats including the trailer unless youve taken the test since 1997 then its 12000kg.

[Rovcoup]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...ons/DG_4022547

before 1997

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...ions/DG_180694

[Chris Y]

Yes, but only on every 3rd Sunday in a leap year.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Chris Y

Yes, but only on every 3rd Sunday in a leap year.

Yes but that has to follow a full moon in Ramadan.

[Copperbottom]

I think you need to clarify the interpretation of "gross" ; the DVLA seem to take the meaning as maximum which how I take it.

Taken from the dvla website: Maximum authorised mass
The term maximum authorised mass (MAM), used in the context of driving licences, is the maximum weight of a vehicle or trailer including the maximum load that can be carried safely while used on the road. This is also known as gross vehicle weight (GVW) or permissible maximum weight. It will be listed in the owner’s manual and is normally shown on a plate or sticker fitted to the vehicle. The plate or sticker may also show a gross train weight (GTW).

[Scooby 96]

back to original topic:-
I know this subject has been aired in the past but it looks now that ANY van or Pick-up and trailer with overall weight of 3500kg needs a Tacho. Am awaiting confirmation from VOSA if this applies to 'Private ' vehicles' or just Company vans and Pick-ups. Any ideas............?

Just been confirmed by VOSA that for Private use there is no problem.
But either Sponsors names on race car or van could constitute 'commercial use' and that would need a Tacho if over 3,500kg. (Prize money could also be deemed commercial - if only.) Also for vans they suggested the good old 'Not for Hire or Reward' on the passenger door would be helpful.

[volvo27]

As an operator of HGV's who these days have to spend at lot of time making sure we are staying compliant with the many regs. in transport I cannot see where HGV's being used as 'not for hire or reward' are going to be any less dangerous than those operated by professionals. To that end I believe that all HGV's and van with trailers should be driven by qualified drivers and be fitted and subject to Tacho regs.. If one of these private hgv combinations is involved in a serious accident the authorities will look at this grey area very carefully and if the driver cannot prove his working and driving hours it could be the end of this loophole in the law

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by volvo27

As an operator of HGV's who these days have to spend at lot of time making sure we are staying compliant with the many regs. in transport I cannot see where HGV's being used as 'not for hire or reward' are going to be any less dangerous than those operated by professionals. To that end I believe that all HGV's and van with trailers should be driven by qualified drivers and be fitted and subject to Tacho regs.. If one of these private hgv combinations is involved in a serious accident the authorities will look at this grey area very carefully and if the driver cannot prove his working and driving hours it could be the end of this loophole in the law

I was under the impression that even though they are taxed as private HGVs they still need a tacho and you still need an LGV licence to drive them.
I think the commercial 4X4 fitted with tachos stems back from the guy who fell asleep in his Land Rover-trailer combo and wiped out a couple of trains and killed 10 people.