terrifying Hillclimb - Bergrennen

[SAMD]

Has anyone seen the above on Youtube? it is simply AWEsome
the thing seems to do 0-170 in 4 seconds up a hill.

[John Robinson]

Link?

Lots of Bergrennen videos on YouTube.

[John Robinson]

Ah, I see now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f0p4Qu2qxc

[Graz]

Mad...I hope he won...

[MGDavid]

you either like hillclimbs - or you don't (I do). He could have been a bit smoother and knocked another second or two off IMO.

[Graz]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

you either like hillclimbs - or you don't (I do). He could have been a bit smoother and knocked another second or two off IMO.

Possibly so but it wouldn't have looked so quick!

I was looking at other Youtube vids of this place and there were some really interesting machines going up the hill. In particular, there was a white Lancia S4 - great sound, supercharger whining away.

This place is in Switzerland right? I thought motorsport was banned there. What's the loophole that allows them to hillclimb?

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Graz

. . .This place is in Switzerland right? I thought motorsport was banned there. What's the loophole that allows them to hillclimb?

Switzerland banned racing after (I think) the big accident at Le Mans in 1955.

But they did not ban hillclimbs.

I think they have just recently lifted the racing ban but I need to check that.

Regards

Jim

[av8rirl]

Originally Posted by Graz

This place is in Switzerland right?

Is Bergrennen not in Austria?

[Asp]

Not CLSS, is it though?

[b1ackcr0w]

Don't know Graz, but believe it or not, that's quite normal for European Hillclimbs. The car BTW is a Norma, a bit special eh?

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

Don't know Graz, but believe it or not, that's quite normal for European Hillclimbs. The car BTW is a Norma, a bit special eh?

Hi b1ackcr0w, any idea what motor he runs in it?

'Cos by the look of it, it has more power than my FF1600
And I wonder how it would go in a Club Level Single Seater

[redturner37]

The car in question is a Norma M20 with BMW power, the driver is Allain Castellano, and at the time of the video he was the French hill-climb champion. I believe the car now resides in Scotland. Oh, and he's not brave or foolish, just good.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by redturner37

The car in question is a Norma M20 with BMW power, the driver is Allain Castellano, and at the time of the video he was the French hill-climb champion. I believe the car now resides in Scotland. Oh, and he's not brave or foolish, just good.

Any idea what BMW engine it runs?

[Quote]you either like hillclimbs - or you don't (I do). He could have been a bit smoother and knocked another second or two off IMO.[quote]

BTW did you notice his concentation was not quite as sharp towards the end of the run (understandably). The first quarter was more like a computer game.

[JimW]

I should perhaps have said that my concern is for the spectators (and marshals) and the effect on the sport of damage to them.

I fully support the right of the driver to make their own assessment of the likely dangers (and then go for it ).

Regards

Jim

[skycafe]

Ok, the VW Bus with Porsche BiTurbo....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9adkvVyFY0

[gttouring]

hill climbs are great a nice test of many things and a good venue for old cars. a new machines but its hard to get momentum like on a circuit and do better and better laps
hillclimbs are mad

[redturner37]

Originally Posted by gttouring

hill climbs are great a nice test of many things and a good venue for old cars. a new machines but its hard to get momentum like on a circuit and do better and better laps
hillclimbs are mad

What on earth are you talking about, this is what makes hill-climbing so much more difficult, you have to work so much harder to get the times down, and you dont know what the competition has done until your run is over. How on earth do you think Martin Groves got the Shelsley Walsh record down to 22.80 seconds, very hard work.

[JimW]

One of the attractions of hillclimbing for me (as a watcher, not a doer) is that minor errors are reflected with substantial losses in performance. Look how the drivers on some of the videos referenced above are being inch-perfect on apexes.

(The fact that obstacles, trees and drops punish other errors more severely is, of course not an attraction but one of the concomitant hazards.)

One problem with speed events of all sorts is that being able to see the times as they are set is an important component of the enjoyment. Many venues are woefully lacking in such information.

Regards

Jim

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by JimW

One problem with speed events of all sorts is that being able to see the times as they are set is an important component of the enjoyment. Many venues are woefully lacking in such information.

Regards

Jim

The problem with having plentiful displays for the spectators is that it costs the organisers money as there is usually a cahrge for each additional clock - always assuming the timekeepers in question have umpteen clocks they can have out on course.

What is invaluable for the spectators is a commentary where information about the competitors plus their time can be relayed. Again this is also dependant on the timekeeper providing either a screen for the commentator or a mini-printer which rattles out the times.

In an ideal world there would be digital clocks at each corner that not only displayed the times but the race number of the competitor. Maybe the organisers should consider investing in such devices plus the cabling so that the timekeepers can just couple them up to their clocks?

[JimW]

I do understand that facilities will have to be funded.

(Cables? What are cables? )

Jim

[chunder]

Ok have been doing some research on Berg Cup racing today and it seems there are three main series with FIA approval.

The one that most people seem to like is the Hillclimb Cup, this is the one featuring Pailler in teh Dayglo 600hp Intergrale, Ianello and his mate in their Delta's and Plasa in teh Judd Beemer

They also have mental classes with 1300cc, 200 bhp Audi 50's, Polos etc, the tech and tuning on these cars is out of this world really.

Problem is, I cant find links to any 'official' websites of the championship?

Can anyone help here please?

[Flymo]

www.berg-cup.de

[Darth Vader]

Hello to all of you! I'm new to this forum. I have read a lot and it is one of the best forums you can find in the web.
My Number One Motorsport is Hillclimbing. And I search for Information around the world. The people in this forum seem to know a lot about the British Scene. But it seems you know not much about European Hillclimbing. So I'd like to offer you my help. Just let me know what you want to know. And excuse me for my bad english. It's not my native language.

The question about the championships is not as easy as it seems. There a lots of championships with lots of classes and different rules.

The Berg Cup for example is a german national championship for Group H Touringcars.
The Championship widely kown over whole Europe is the FIA European Championship. But although it is a FIA-Championship and it is the second oldest FIA-Championship after Formula 1 there is no official Homepage.
I have to stop know. But ask me if you want to know more!

[chunder]

Ok Sith

I ahve been looking again at videos and websites

There seem to be various series running berg Cup style cars.

There is the German cup with Polo, Golf, Kadett, etc all running very highe spec motors.

And then I keep seeing Ianello, Gabat, Pailler and the DTM Mercs in series aswell.

Plus not every series seems the run teh V6 proto cars and the F3000 machines?

I think Berg Cup is what I have been watching. Main guys seems to be a guy in a yellow Polo that screams its nuts off, with another in a silver/purple car?

Then that amazing yellow Kadett that changes gear in milliseconds and the old shape 3 series??

V confusing!

[Darth Vader]

You are right chunder. It is very confusing.
It starts all Back in the 80s when Group N and Group A Touring Cars were established by the FIA. These are still the main Touring Car Classes in the European Championship. But, what to do with the old cars of Group 1 - 4, old Rallye Cars and so on? The FIA hab no answer. And the amount of cars which could probably be used in Hillclimbs growth more and more. Group N and Group A Cars which were no longer homologated. Group B, DTM, Super Touring Cars...
So every Nation created its one class for all those cars. In the core it is the same in every country. But in detail its different in every Country.
In Luxembourg its Group ACL
In Germany german Group H
In Austria austrian Group H
In Switzerland its Group Interswiss
In France they call it Group F
But it went even more confusing when FIA discovered the problem. They created E1-Touring Cars. E1 ist much more liberal as Group H. But the nations did not adopt the new rules, they kept their own. To allow E1-Cars to start they created new classes. In Germany this is called Freestyle.
There is also a movement in the other direction. Some people don't wanted to spent so much money as is necessary to get competitive in Group H. So Group CBC (Classic Berg Cup) was born which is more restricted then Group H. To become more confusing some of the Top-Drivers do sometimes switch between the groups. In some times times it is so confusing that even the officials and drivers don't know exactly what they do.

If you are still with we, I go to the championships. The main championship over Europe is the European Championship. It is divided in two divisions. Divison I for Touring Cars: Group A; N; SP; S2000 and GT.
Division II for Racing Cars: Group CN and Group E2(F3000,F3 ...)
The European Challenge takes place with the same rules but on Tracks which are not so traditinonal and more in eastern Europe. Then we have European Hillclimb Cup. This is the series the FIA created for their E1-Touring Cars. It is split in two conferences.
On the national level there are national championships in
Germany,Belgium,Luxembourg,Switzerland,Austria,France,Spain,Portugal,Italy,Czech Republic,Slovakia,Slovenia,Croatia...
The Champions drive nearly alway F3000 or CN-Prototypes. But the Quality of the Championships is very different. In Belgium there is one F3000 and one CN. In Germany there are 4-7 CN and no F3000. In France they got 10 F3000 and 10 CN.
In Germany for example the Championship is split. So we have a German Champion for Racing Cars and for Touring Cars. Then there is the German Trophy which is not for the TopCars. So we have German Trophy Champion for Racing Cars (F2 or C3 Prototypes) and for Touring Cars (Group H). Then there are cups within the championship which run mostly the same events as the German championship. SBC(for sportscars), Berg Cup(for Group H) and CBC(for Group CBC) So there a lot of champions each year.
In austria austrian championship has only few races in austria. They often go to Czech Republic or Slovakia. But they have another series in the Steiermark which is called Bergrallye-Cup. It is only for TouringCars similar to Group H. The Tracks are much shorter and smaller then on normal hillclimbs. Back to the 80s they drove on gravel, too. But today no more.

The drivers you mentioned:
We have Peter Naumann. (The yellow Polo) He started in 1300cc Group H Berg-Cup. But his Polo is no longer with us. It was destroyed last vear.
Holger Hovemann.(The yellow Kadett) Group H Berg-Cup 2000cc. He ist the fastest driver in the Group H. Often faster then the cars over 2000cc.
Bruno Ianniello: He drives a Lancia Delta S4 Group B. He doesn't drive a championship and starts where he wants.
Andreas Gabat: Ford Escort Cosworth - Austrian Championship
Felix Pailer: Lancia Delta Integrale - Bergrally-Cup (He is called Mister Bergrally) Austrian Championship as well.
Reto Meisel: Ex-DTM-Mercedes 190E (now with Judd V8-Power) German Championship
There are other drivers on Porsche 911, BMW-Judd 320, DTM-Opel-Astra;DTM-Audi-TT;ITC-Alfa Romeo 155V6TI, Ferrari 575GTC, Ferrari 360Modena, Lancia Delta Integrale, BMW M3 V8; Porsche 935,Porsche 911 GT2, Mitsubishi Lancer or Ford RS200.


I think I could give you some information. Asked detailed questions if you want to know more. As you see it is very complex.