Porsche WSC-95 & LMP1-98

[J.J.S.S.Express]

Hello
I'm the webmaster of french Jaguar XJR-14 website http://site.voila.fr/xjr14/index.html
I actually update my site with new pictures of XJR614, MXR-01 and WSC-95.
I have discover on english wikipedia that Porsche LMP1-98s were former WSC-95 !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_WSC-95

Le Mans 24 Hours 1998 Annual book don't give more news. If anybody can help to have a clue, I'll be happy. I know Joest have WSC-95/001 chassis (win Ã* le mans in 96 and 97). So Porsche have always the second chassis, WSC-95/002, former Jaguar XJR-14/691 ???

Help me pleaseeeee

[chunterer]

This would be just as likely, perhaps more so to get a decent response in the Sportscar & GT Racing section.

Perhaps we can copy or move it across fellow hosts?

[John Turner]

Got a feeling I've read about this somewhere and that one of the cars was built up from a spare XJR14 chassis gathering dust at TWR, and that TWR then built up a second one for Joest, to order. However, could be miles out there, so over to you guys - you're bound to know.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Got a feeling I've read about this somewhere and that one of the cars was built up from a spare XJR14 chassis gathering dust at TWR, and that TWR then built up a second one for Joest, to order. However, could be miles out there, so over to you guys - you're bound to know.

The history for the WSC-95 is somewhat convoluted when it comes to chassis #s. I believe that one of the XJR-14 race cars was converted to WSC-95 spec (the surviving XJR-14 because of the 3 chassis, only 1 survived the IMSA GTP series without serious damage if I recall correctly). It is my understanding that this chassis, teh converted XJR-14, was the actual race winner in '96 and '97. But I'm also of the understanding at very least one new chassis was laid up, possibly more. Somewhere I have all of this written down, but it's a matter of finding...plus I'm still not 100% convinced it's correct. What I'm writing here is from memory, so even this may have an obvious error that contradicts something I've said in the past (I think XJR-14 chassis #s have come up in the past on here).

[Aslak Vind]

I will ask Tom K, if you guys are in doubt?

[Aslak Vind]

It is my understanding that this chassis, teh converted XJR-14, was the actual race winner in '96 and '97

Mike, I am pretty sure that your theory is correct!

[J.J.S.S.Express]

Exactly Mike, WSC-95 chassis 002 was the XJR-14 chassis 691-192. The former XJR614 was the chassis who make pole position in Le Mans in 1996. But the winning Le Mans chassis '96-'97, 001, was a new chassis tube from TWR.

But do you have an idea for Porsche LMP1/98 ? Are They some new chassis in 1998 ?

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by J.J.S.S.Express

Exactly Mike, WSC-95 chassis 002 was the XJR-14 chassis 691-192. The former XJR614 was the chassis who make pole position in Le Mans in 1996. But the winning Le Mans chassis '96-'97, 001, was a new chassis tube from TWR.

But do you have an idea for Porsche LMP1/98 ? Are They some new chassis in 1998 ?

That I'm not sure of...I'll see if I can get an answer.

[J.J.S.S.Express]

Thank you Mike !

I should contact you about my XJR-14 website because chassis 591 is for sale. I remember that Former owner had forbid you to publish some pictures of his car. But I think now it's ok ?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by J.J.S.S.Express

Thank you Mike !

I should contact you about my XJR-14 website because chassis 591 is for sale. I remember that Former owner had forbid you to publish some pictures of his car. But I think now it's ok ?

Are there now two XJR-14's, one of which is owned by Duncan Dayton.

Also what happened to the five Mazda MXR-01's.

[MulsanneMike]

OK, email back from Ralf Juttner says the tubs from '98 were the same ones from '96.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

OK, email back from Ralf Juttner says the tubs from '98 were the same ones from '96.

Wow you really have some contacts!.
It's cool how Sportscars can be used for several years, where most singel seaters are changed every year!?

[J.J.S.S.Express]

Great Mike ! Thank you so much.

Incredible but it's true : Porsche LMP1/98 n°8 in Porsche musuem was the Jaguar XJR-14/691 n°4 used by Teo Fabi to be 1991 world champion !!!

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by J.J.S.S.Express

Great Mike ! Thank you so much.

Incredible but it's true : Porsche LMP1/98 n°8 in Porsche musuem was the Jaguar XJR-14/691 n°4 used by Teo Fabi to be 1991 world champion !!!

I find chassis like that particularly interesting. Economy of design. 962 is the same.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by J.J.S.S.Express

Great Mike ! Thank you so much.

Incredible but it's true : Porsche LMP1/98 n°8 in Porsche musuem was the Jaguar XJR-14/691 n°4 used by Teo Fabi to be 1991 world champion !!!

Really ..... I find that fasinating too . I wonder if 956-117 really did win Le Mans twice ? Does this make us nerds for finding this interesting ? lol ...

[Aslak Vind]

Does this make us nerds for finding this interesting ?

Noo, at least we dont watch trains

[JAG]

I was suprised Mazda had 5 cars for one season, and why they didn't run more than two at Le Mans, given they were defending their title against a small field.

I also wonder if the 'productionised' XJR-14, which became the Mazda, was planned before or after the Jaguar WSC program was given the chop.

Potentially you could have eventually seen customer 'XJR-14's' in IMSA GTP with the V6 turbo, in fact any engine, if the chassis was sold as a TWR.

In one book I own it was said rival designers were unimpressed with XJR-14's F1 inspired nose wing, as it created lots of drag, but maximum downforce seems the direction LMP designs have moved to since.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by JAG

In one book I own it was said rival designers were unimpressed with XJR-14's F1 inspired nose wing, as it created lots of drag, but maximum downforce seems the direction LMP designs have moved to since.

So unimpressed they copied it (Peugeot 905)!

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by JAG

In one book I own it was said rival designers were unimpressed with XJR-14's F1 inspired nose wing, as it created lots of drag, but maximum downforce seems the direction LMP designs have moved to since.

The 3.5 Group C cars didn't run to a fuel consumption requirement, and thus Jaguar and Peugeot poured on all the downforce they could and hope that at tracks where the conventional Group C cars could have an advantage that by cranking up the power and by having better braking and cornering abilities(lighter car, more downforce) could blunt any straightline speed deficits.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

The 3.5 Group C cars didn't run to a fuel consumption requirement, and thus Jaguar and Peugeot poured on all the downforce they could and hope that at tracks where the conventional Group C cars could have an advantage that by cranking up the power and by having better braking and cornering abilities(lighter car, more downforce) could blunt any straightline speed deficits.

That's a bit of an over simplification because if you look at the 3.5 Liter Car's overall aero efficiency, they were some of the most efficient cars to ever compete with L/Ds exceeding 6:1 for the Peugeot and Toyota. So they didn't lack for straight line speed given their power outputs. But in specific regards to the XJR-14, it wasn't as efficient as made out to be. The Jaguar ran in the 4-4.5:1 range.

The Jaguar was so good because of its timing. It came out of the box and had most everything right (down to minimum weight and good reliability) while the Peugeot struggled (unreliable, over weight, initially aero nothing special). But when time Peugeot introduced its redesign mid-season '91, it was clear the 905 was a major step forward in aero efficiency. So too the Toyota TS010, hence the Mazda MXR-01 struggled in'92.

As further proof of the Jaguar's draggy nature, trap speeds at Le Mans in '91 indicate a top speed of 319 kph for the #4 XJR-14 (data is incomplete as no trap time was acquired for the sister car--did it even do much running?). In MXR-01 form in '92, the Mazda could do no better than 324 kph while the Peugeot was hitting 351 kph and the Toyota 346. And note the #6 Kajima Mazda MXR-01 ran with a low drag rear wing set up that eliminated the top tier rear wing (no trap speeds unfortunately). Mazda knew it needed to try and shed some drag for Le Mans, though at the expense of downforce. Johnny Herbert ran so well in the early hours that year in the rain because of three things in particular; competitive downforce levels (despite giving up L/D, they at least ran to similar downforce taking the hit in the straight line), really good Goodyear wets, and a motivated Herbert.

[J.J.S.S.Express]

Mazda run with Michelin Tyres in 1992 !

French Michelin tyres are the best in the world lol

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by J.J.S.S.Express

Mazda run with Michelin Tyres in 1992 !

French Michelin tyres are the best in the world lol

Ugh, indeed, scratch that from the record!

[J.J.S.S.Express]

Mike, I have talk with Tony Dowe, former TWR ingenior at Valparaiso. He confirm me : 591 have been crash at Lime Rock. This car can run but not at high speed Dowe said, it's now a show car in Duncan Dayton Hall. 691 have been totaly destroy at Elkhart Lake, rebuilt with a new chassis tube in 2003. And 791 is now Posche WSC-95-001 who have won Le Mans in 1996-1997. WSC-95-002 was a new chassis.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by J.J.S.S.Express

Mike, I have talk with Tony Dowe, former TWR ingenior at Valparaiso. He confirm me : 591 have been crash at Lime Rock. This car can run but not at high speed Dowe said, it's now a show car in Duncan Dayton Hall. 691 have been totaly destroy at Elkhart Lake, rebuilt with a new chassis tube in 2003. And 791 is now Posche WSC-95-001 who have won Le Mans in 1996-1997. WSC-95-002 was a new chassis.

Yes, Dowe has said the same thing to me...we take coffee on a somewhat regular basis. Dowe has clarified the record regarding the XJR-14 chassis though I'm now wondering where Leslie Thurston got his info as it clashes with Dowe's information. Anyhow...did some reading this morning and indeed confirmed WSC95 001 was the double Le Mans winner...and according to the contemporary record, 2 new chassis were built by Astec for 3 TWR Porsches in total---XJR-14 #791 to WSC 95 001, and the WSC 95 002 and (assuming) WSC 95 003.

[Hugewally]

There was a Mazda MXR-01 on display at the Laguna Historics last year. Was told that is had been in a conex box for a long time. The guys taking care of it really didn't know much about it.