Club Historic Racing

[Derwent Motorsp]

This forum is always interesting but it does seem that there are relatively few posters and those are at the top end of the spending level, somewhat a distance from the level of racing I do with the MGCC and Equipe GTS.
Are there other forums that cater for the clubman historic racer?

[Peter Mallett]

You could always start a few threads. But if you harp on about cost all the time, all that will happen is people will get borde and walk away.

What is club motorsport? Is it "run what you brung with no safety gear"? well that wouldn't work so it must be a series of races that people who don't get paid to race, enter whether the organiser is a "club" or a "promoter".

[Robert Farrell]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

What is club motorsport? Is it "run what you brung with no safety gear"? well that wouldn't work so it must be a series of races that people who don't get paid to race, enter whether the organiser is a "club" or a "promoter".

I would assume that "Club Motorsport" is that run by clubs for the benefit of the members of that or other invited clubs. The other form, commercial events are run by promoters for the benefit of the promoters.
I think, usually, there is room for both types of event. However, 2011 is starting to look rather crowded.
Club events usually cost less than the "Promoter" events. This does not neccessarily mean that Club events are better value. You pays your money and you makes your choice. "Market forces dear boy"

[zefarelly]

Its all club racing, don't believe the hype (or bull****!)

[Lancsbreaker]

I think a lot of club racers aren't very interested in internet forums.....my club (CSCC) has its own sub-forum within 10ths which is reasonably well used, but only really by a very small proportion of all the CSCC racers....

Have you discussed this with any of the guys you race with? Do any of them post? If not, why not.....?

[zefarelly]

its probably as much to do with occupation as anything . . .if you sit in an office at a computer all day . . . . .

[Mike Bell]

'Derwent Motorsport', (I would call you by your real name but no idea what it is), I think Joe has a point- maybe more to do with available time at a PC?

I don't think your appraisal is correct, anyway, and even if it was for me one of the strengths of 'tenths' is that whatever and wherever contributors race, on here we are all equal.

[Paul D]

Originally Posted by Derwent Motorsp

and those are at the top end of the spending level, somewhat a distance from the level of racing I do with the MGCC and Equipe GTS.

I wish I was at the top end of the spending. The top end of anything would be nice!

I think there are quite a few on here who are closer to the lower echelons of the spending curve. Certainly, I aim to spend f*** all if I can get away with it! Perhaps you should come and join us in the CSCC - quite a few of us are skint. Although, there are quite a few with big wallets as well, but that's always going to be the case isn't it? Motorsport is one of those pastimes that's always going to attract the rich posers - not that I'm saying anyone with a few quid is a rich poser you understand, 'cos I'm not. But you can't be a rich poser if you don't have a few quid can you?

As for the posters on this forum, I wouldn't know for sure. As Richard has said, CSCC has its own sub-forum, but although the club has hundreds of members, there's probably only 20-odd regular posters within the CSCC forum.

I wonder how many racers are out there who may possibly join in if they knew it existed? From memory, I think I only discovered this forum by accident, so how many others out there aren't aware of it? Or perhaps I was just wandering around with my eyes shut!

[zefarelly]

I don't recall how I found tentenths, but I did work at a PC in an office at the time!
I have met lots of decent people racing and many through tentenths.

i am of very modest means, that we aspire to having decent car(s) and do decent races isn't a bad thing is it?

[Moosehead]

Perhaps its just a perception that we are all rich. Certainly most 'normal' people assume I have money when I tell them what I do in my spare time. Due to the car I race I sometimes get the same 'treatment' from those within the sport but I can assure you I am most definitely skint

[delta]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

I don't recall how I found tentenths, but I did work at a PC in an office at the time!
I have met lots of decent people racing and many through tentenths.

i am of very modest means, that we aspire to having decent car(s) and do decent races isn't a bad thing is it?

I with you as well Joe.Made some great mates on here and most of them are as poor as me. Cus we spend all our money on motor racing.
I think i can see where Derwent is going but if you start deviding up the championships into the "i look up to him but look down on him" so on and so on, all you will do is cheese people off.Im lucky as a driver/ racing mechanic i get to rub shoulders with the wealthy and poor racers,all of which company i enjoy very much.Crikee that was all a bit serious for me

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Derwent Motorsp

This forum is always interesting but it does seem that there are relatively few posters and those are at the top end of the spending level, somewhat a distance from the level of racing I do with the MGCC and Equipe GTS.
Are there other forums that cater for the clubman historic racer?

Relatively few posters seems to be a common thing with all sorts of forums.

No bad thing in some ways. Too many and it just becomes bun fight of meaningless comments to wade though.

I see what you are saying but it may simply be that people congregate in small groups because that is more comfortable for them (even within a site that offers a wide appeal as does Ten Tenths or somewhere with seemingly extreme width, like Pistonheads!)

My guess is that if you could find a quorum a sub-forum on Tenths for the clubman historic racer would work well. Then people could dip in and out and still have a broader coverage of their sporting passion at a single location.

But I would guess that at best the 'population' would be around 5% of regular competitors as 'frequent' participants and never more than 10% as sometime participants. So if there are, say, 300 active racing members of a particular club a hardcore of around 15 will be anything like regular posters. If you can bring them all into the fold.

Nothing wrong with that - it's like feeling comfortable when you visit your local pub - (whatever a pub is ..... ?)

GrantP's theory of forums! Anyone else have a view?

[midgetman]

My definiton of club racers? Club racers use standard fuel tanks.

A club racer needs to belong to a club. Masters, 360MRC, HGPCA, HSCC are all clubs, Equipe GTS isn't. So clearly the historic F1 boys are clubbies but you, Grahame aren't!

The beauty of motor sport is that if you're on the grid you can converse princes and paupers alike. It's not about differences between us, it's about shared experiences if you're at your limit. I've gone flat through Lesmos, while not at Lewis or Jenson's speed it was equally scary and demanding in my little car!

And forums are great places to share if you're a chatterbox like me! We can all have an opinion whether we're the prince or the pauper.

[zefarelly]

A good organiser, whether he charges or not can make/offer a 'club' feel, which to my mind is one of being welcome and valued, and offering all the team good fun, its not about cost.

It helps when the rest of the racers are like minded, and thats got sod all to do with budget, just a common interest and goal for your leisure time

Any particular race series should aspire to that, even within a larger club, as the series vary wildly within bigger clubs, HSCC being the obvious one.

What seems to gripe is the assumption that there's a difference between historics and newer cars, other than regs and age I don't see it . . . we're just the same but prefer proper cars!

[john ruston]

As was said Historic Motorsport is all about Club Level Racing.There is no other form of Historic Racing,its the bottom of the pile.
Some clubs are expensive ,some relatively cheap.
Representatives of all stratas of Historic Motorsport post on here so why do you need another forum?
The costs are the costs ,price is price,you either pay or don't go to the dance whatever the level.
Mr Derwent your posts usually concern the cost of Motorsport.Like most things in life you spend as much as you want to, so just to help assume you will be at Snetterton with a car on 30/4 where a group from here are organizing cheap racing for a day.

VSCC,750 MC all cheap races.

All these things are covered on here.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by john ruston

.......Mr Derwent your posts usually concern the cost of Motorsport.Like most things in life you spend as much as you want to, so just to help assume you will be at Snetterton with a car on 30/4 where a group from here are organizing cheap racing for a day.

You will be very welcome

[zefarelly]

Perhaps someone should start a Victor meldrew race series

3 laps to keep costs minimal and not burn too much petrol or wear tyres out etc, then hire a conference room so they can all get together and have a bloody good moan about everything for 6 hours afterwards.

bah humbug

[johngee]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

Perhaps someone should start a Victor meldrew race series

It's already been done Zef. Runs at Brands Hatch in November. I was a Steward - can't think why they thought I was suitable?

I too, struggle with this concept of 'club' motorsport, certainly within historic racing. Everybody has different budget levels and whilst there are class divisions, I've never detected, from my perspective, that they're based on money or which club you belong to. You pay whatever the going rate is to enter the races you want at the circuits you want, with the club or organiser that you want. It's a free market economy.
AFAIK (and at the risk of starting an unseasonal row), club subscriptions and entry fees are not the most significant part of a racer's budget.

Can I be amongst the first on here to wish everybody a happy, safe and healthy Christmas

[Al Weyman]

Derwent like others have said you want to look at my 'budget'! Its not good but I occassionaly put on a good performance against guys that have a much superior budget and there is no better feeling. If I didnt do my own prep especially engines I couldnt do the sport its as simple as that as there is no way I can pay out 20k for an engine. Also I have met some great people over the years, those in the millionaire bracket and those with even worse budgets than me and most have been really nice people and an honour to have made their aquantanices because at the end of the day we all share one common passion, historic motorsport.

BTW I found 10/10th via a very good and classified link from my club CTCRC's webpage. Infact I always go in via that route as the pages I want to view are laid out, updated and catagourised on the club webpage.

Hey Zef someone has already done that well a race at least and rumour was it was started up about my moaning! BTW off topic but I watched an episode of One foot in the grave the other night where his nieghbour not only has a crash, she is badly injured, is found to be slightly over the DD limit and looses her baby to boot, hilarious NOT!!!

[Peter Mallett]

When you consider that Gerry Marshall was in many eyes, the greatest Club Racer in the UK, and you look at the cars he raced, you have to wonder what the term club racer really means.

[simon drabble]

Zef and Peter - I am with you on this, all this talk of millionaire poseurs is frankly dull and smacks of envy talk. I consider myself a clubbie and race mostly with HSCC and occassionally dip into other rounds - IMHO a Clubbie is anyone who races mostly on the domestic circuits.
If I am wrong then I would be interested to know what the definition is.....

[Colin McKay]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

all this talk of millionaire poseurs is frankly dull and smacks of envy talk.

What about paid pro drivers in 'club' racing, some don't think it's right. That's often part of the big budget but (although I didn't always look at it this way) there's a greater sense of achievement when you catch and pass them.

Without these wealthy racers there would be some pretty dull meetings around, I've been cannon fodder at some fantastic events and loved every minute.

[SFurness]

Like most things in life budgets are "relative".

If your bank account has a balance of seven figures a few thousand for an engine is not an issue.

If you race with whats left over after all the other "living" expenses are paid like me your budget is somewhat restricted.

To make the budget go further I do as much of the preparation I can and I do enjoy that side of it as well. At least when the temperature in the garage is above freezing.

It is what it is.

My plans for next season are very much "subject to" all being well I'll be on the grid in April.

Plan B is to buy a lottery ticket.

Steve

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

What about paid pro drivers in 'club' racing, some don't think it's right. That's often part of the big budget but (although I didn't always look at it this way) there's a greater sense of achievement when you catch and pass them.

Without these wealthy racers there would be some pretty dull meetings around, I've been cannon fodder at some fantastic events and loved every minute.

How many paid drivers are there in this country, I bet it doesn't go above double figures although for a small fee I'd drive that nice Mk2 of yours

[zefarelly]

I think it means going out and having fun in your spare time doesn't it?

without necessarily having to have International playboy stamped on your passport

The odd Euro jaunt is always welcome although they don't have brown beer served in Jugs very often, and I do think massive sideburns should be reintroduced as a safety precaution, a sort of natural Hans device