Team Sauber F1 in trouble

321Go · 8 Jul 2013, 09:24 (Ref:3275295)

After chief designer Matt Morris left the team and joined McLaren recently, there's now talk that Sauber F1 are not paying their bills.

http://www.f1zone.net/news/sauber-ad...ng-paid/19691/

And in the last hour or so, news that Hulkenberg's contract has been terminated.

http://www.f1times.co.uk/news/display/07813

Russia to the rescue??

http://www.f1zone.net/news/russian-b...-sauber/19675/

Marbot · 8 Jul 2013, 12:12 (Ref:3275360)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 321Go

And in the last hour or so, news that Hulkenberg's contract has been terminated.

That's not actually what it says. It says that he his free to leave Sauber with immediate effect. He's unlikely to do that unless Ferrari have had enough of Massa's driving errors and want someone who is actually a much better driver in its #2 car. At least Hulkenburg is free to go where he wants at the end of this season.

I should also say that, because of next seasons rule changes, there may be one or two other teams that are also having some problems with cash flow.

**ScotsBrutesFan** · 8 Jul 2013, 12:25 (Ref:3275365)

Released not terminated is the important part, as there would likely be a termination fee written into his contract which Sauber wouldn't want to have to pay.

Releasing him, means that they can replace him with a pay driver if they so wish, or rather replace him with whom ever the new sponsor so wishes.

pauln · 8 Jul 2013, 12:48 (Ref:3275374)

Sounds to me more like there was an option in the contract that would keep him with the team if they met certain performance goals and that as they have not done so the option cannot be exercised.

**bella** · 8 Jul 2013, 13:13 (Ref:3275383)

those sources are a bit ropey. i'd be curious to know if any of them have a direct presence at the races or whether they just pick up on second hand rumour.

JeremySmith · 9 Jul 2013, 01:59 (Ref:3275679)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

those sources are a bit ropey. i'd be curious to know if any of them have a direct presence at the races or whether they just pick up on second hand rumour.

yes..........

**chunterer** · 9 Jul 2013, 07:35 (Ref:3275737)

Unless a team is one of the manufacturer teams, (or Red Bull!!) where everything is bankrollled to a large extent, any other teams are seemingly always one main sponsor deal away from disaster?

It is so tough to run an outfit let alone be competitive. I really don't know how Marussia are surviving either.

We don't want to see teams in trouble or end up with multi car grandees ruling the roost

wnut · 9 Jul 2013, 08:20 (Ref:3275755)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Unless a team is one of the manufacturer teams, (or Red Bull!!) where everything is bankrollled to a large extent, any other teams are seemingly always one main sponsor deal away from disaster?

It is so tough to run an outfit let alone be competitive. I really don't know how Marussia are surviving either.

We don't want to see teams in trouble or end up with multi car grandees ruling the roost

An emerging and growing problem seems to be the "grandee" teams poaching other peoples employees.
When you think that there are only 11 teams in F1, there is not a lot of room to lose any of them!

321Go · 12 Jul 2013, 07:24 (Ref:3276895)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

those sources are a bit ropey. i'd be curious to know if any of them have a direct presence at the races or whether they just pick up on second hand rumour.

Sorry folks, please disregard. The story is just a second hand rumour.

Sauber aren't in trouble because the source is a bit ropey.

davyboy · 8 Jul 2013, 13:29 (Ref:3275393)

On yesterday's BBC telecast, Ben Edwards claimed that Hulkenberg hadn't been paid by Sauber so that may be the reason Hulkenberg and his management triggered a contract termination... or as has been said... place both parties in the position of free agents.

chillibowl · 8 Jul 2013, 14:44 (Ref:3275408)

if true, unfortunate for the Hulk who in hindsight has not been at all successful in the choices he has made in his F1 career.

BSchneiderFan · 8 Jul 2013, 16:34 (Ref:3275439)

I do hope nothing comes of this. Sauber are a solid team, albeit struggling this year.

Sodemo · 8 Jul 2013, 16:42 (Ref:3275443)

Yep, Hulk deserves better.

Knowlesy · 8 Jul 2013, 22:15 (Ref:3275603)

Sauber were obviously heavily reliant on the money Perez brought in. Oh dear.

**bella** · 9 Jul 2013, 10:22 (Ref:3275805)

poaching employees has always happened though. that's just how life works. the reason why we're all noticing now is the increased media coverage.

i thought much of the money perez brought in (ie the telmex related stuff) has passed to gutierrez?

i still think hulkenberg was right to leave force india. there's clearly more to it than simply better opportunities to win elsewhere. but those suggesting moving to sauber was The Worst Thing ever are being a bit dramatic. i think he'll be around for a while yet. he's not disgracing himself on the track, flouncing around in the paddock sulking at the media, or anything like that. so if anything, this is proving an excellent shop window for his abilities and conduct.

**BertMk2** · 9 Jul 2013, 10:30 (Ref:3275816)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

i still think hulkenberg was right to leave force india. there's clearly more to it than simply better opportunities to win elsewhere. but those suggesting moving to sauber was The Worst Thing ever are being a bit dramatic. i think he'll be around for a while yet. he's not disgracing himself on the track, flouncing around in the paddock sulking at the media, or anything like that. so if anything, this is proving an excellent shop window for his abilities and conduct.

I'm not sure he was right to leave FI but I agree he'll be around for a while yet. He's got a decent shout of a Lotus drive next season (even if Kimi stays), there's a Ferrari seat that could be available too. His biggest problem in securing a seat is that he doesn't bring money so he's got to be looking at the front end of the grid as his only options - and they're obviously the seats everyone wants.

Knowlesy · 9 Jul 2013, 10:25 (Ref:3275809)

There are two top seats about to open up, I still think Hulkenberg will be top of the list to fill one of them.

**bella** · 9 Jul 2013, 10:56 (Ref:3275822)

at least he's a strong candidate for those though - he hasn't really done anything to say otherwise in the few years that he's been in f1. he's not like grosjean or maldonado who come with significant "yeah, but" clauses to their talent, he's pretty low risk.

regarding not bringing money, his management has changed since he said he wasn't ever going to bring any personal sponsors, ever. in his defence, he spent his junior years under the wing of willi weber (who blatently sock puppeted that particular comment), and having the very best drives available sorted out for him without an issue so his reality perception on the sponsor front is a long way off still.

regarding force india... personally, working with di resta would do my head in, he's just so... negative. we've all got one of those in our office. and if you haven't, it's you

have they not cocked up the strategy frequently this season too?

**BertMk2** · 9 Jul 2013, 11:47 (Ref:3275847)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

.. personally, working with di resta would do my head in, he's just so... negative.

As Sniff Petrol put it:

"Force India will not run KERS on Paul di Resta’s car this season, preferring to use a unique hybrid system that harnesses the pure power of Scottish misery."

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

have they not cocked up the strategy frequently this season too?

Yep. More than just about any other team. The car though does appear to be fundamentally better than this years Sauber, if Hulkenberg was in Sutils car he'd have more points than he does now. I suppose though in the Sauber he's still got the chance to impress by dragging its sorry ass into Q3 every now and again.

I Rosputnik · 9 Jul 2013, 13:18 (Ref:3275897)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

As Sniff Petrol put it:

"Force India will not run KERS on Paul di Resta’s car this season, preferring to use a unique hybrid system that harnesses the pure power of Scottish misery."
.

***

Anyway interesting to read about Telmex going to McLaren, I thought they were with both Perez and Gutierrez?

**bella** · 9 Jul 2013, 14:18 (Ref:3275917)

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

Anyway interesting to read about Telmex going to McLaren, I thought they were with both Perez and Gutierrez?

thats how gutierrez ended up at sauber in the first place. you've got to say on the strength of this season they'd have to have the patience of a sai... well, eric boullier to keep him on if he doesn't bring any decent sized wad. i'm sure he's a lovely bloke and he was really really good in his earlier days but as he's got further up the ladder and more variables have been introduced to his racing he's been less consistently able to do a good job.

unlike frijns, who has had this epic reputation and managed to live up to it every time he has moved up into a new series, he just doesn't seem to be able to make the most of his opportunities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I'm expecting Ferrari to keep Massa for another year then put Bianchi into the car after that. They could have ditched Massa for Hulkenberg at the end of last season if they'd wanted him.

see, the only thing that stops me agreeing with that would be... what's the point in another year at marussia? are sauber using ferrari engines next year, is there a deal to be had there, i wonder?

**BertMk2** · 9 Jul 2013, 15:06 (Ref:3275929)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

see, the only thing that stops me agreeing with that would be... what's the point in another year at marussia? are sauber using ferrari engines next year, is there a deal to be had there, i wonder?

I agree that another year at Marussia will prove nothing but he's better of there than being a 3rd driver somewhere (more F1 track time, more experience on the F1 circuits). Are Marussia using Ferrari lumps next season? Cosworth aren't doing a turbo engine are they so Marussia need to get a powerplant from somewhere. Sauber would be a better option but will they be around? (will Marussia?) I suppose Gutierrez and Bianchi - with Telmex backing and discounted Ferrari engines is an option.

jsTrecu · 9 Jul 2013, 11:06 (Ref:3275829)

Will the Ferrari seat really be aviable ?
I'm more and more convinced that they'll retain Massa until Alonso leaves to keep him happy.

I would like to see Hulk there tho, don't think he deserves to be jumping from a struggling team to another.

**bella** · 9 Jul 2013, 11:49 (Ref:3275849)

do you think it's just the ferrari seat that's up for grabs in the next season or two?

**BertMk2** · 9 Jul 2013, 12:04 (Ref:3275854)

Well for next season there's at least one Lotus seat that is potentially available (2 if Kimi goes to Red Bull), maybe one at Ferrari for next year (and another when Alonso finally gives up and goes to Red Bull - although that's probably a straight swap with Vettel right?). Not sure how long the McLaren drivers have got left on their contracts - I'd have thought Button will leave once his is up and Perez isn't really any better then Hulkenberg is he? Webber bailing out has made silly season interesting again

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