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14 Mar 2015, 21:25 (Ref:3515230) | #1 | ||
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Guardian article
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14 Mar 2015, 21:32 (Ref:3515232) | #2 | ||
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Appreciate the link, cheers
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14 Mar 2015, 21:42 (Ref:3515235) | #3 | ||
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It is probably best not to post it on the F1 forum they might get upset
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14 Mar 2015, 21:51 (Ref:3515237) | #4 | ||
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I wouldn't venture over there anyway
Always nice to see some mainstream coverage, but preaching to the choir over here; I'm just reading it thinking "well.....durrr". Or whatever the grownup equivalent is. |
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14 Mar 2015, 22:31 (Ref:3515243) | #5 | ||
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Perhaps more important than the article itself is its author, who is the previous chief sports writer at the Grauniad. He's not been shy in voicing his dissatisfaction of what F1 has become. One thing he did forget to mention was that even in the WEC he won't get away from the tarmac glory of the Tilkedrome!
Mainstream recognition is good to see, but I can't say I'm a fan of the "need" to compare sportscars to F1. I can understand it in this case but it never comes across well to me, and judging by the comments section most of the people who read it are already sportscar fans anyway. I also think his prediction(/hope?) of seeing F1 implode is a bit fanciful, but that's not a discussion for this forum |
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15 Mar 2015, 02:12 (Ref:3515277) | #6 | ||
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I started following F1 in 1967, and sportscar racing in 1971. I always followed both but was more of an F1 fan. Disgusted with what Bernie turned F1 into, I stopped watching F1 five years ago and now just follow sportscar racing.
I think there are increasing numbers of fans doing this. Currently, WEC is as good as it was back in the Group C era and the 1970's, if not better. I'm starting to thing the current situation is better. Certainly there is more major manufacturer involvement. It's a great time to be a sportscar racing fan, and I hope other fans make the switch. One, it will give the sport more resources. Two, it will show sanctioning bodies that there is a lot of interest in technical innovation and variety, and that could lead to better racing in all series. |
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Just give them some safety rules, limit the fuel (to control the speeds), drop the green flag, and see what happens. |
15 Mar 2015, 10:46 (Ref:3515414) | #7 | ||
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"Although, given that the designers of Le Mans cars also use computers, there is an inevitable similarity about their creations,"
Computers don't design cars, people design cars using computers. |
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15 Mar 2015, 11:40 (Ref:3515426) | #8 | ||
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I like most forms of motor racing but hate the politics that are present, the article makes the point that the WEC is on the rise and F1 in a bit of a crisis, i prefer sportscar racing but others F1 however there is room for both, however i do agree with him in that we can already see a shift in both fans and manufacturers towards the WEC approach to modern racing
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15 Mar 2015, 13:44 (Ref:3515456) | #9 | |
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Get on there and comment! They've had 22 comments; the more comments, the more chance they'll start giving more coverage to the WEC. To be fair, Giles Richards quite often has reports on the WEC, and Sebring sometimes gets reported.
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15 Mar 2015, 22:23 (Ref:3515601) | #10 | ||
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Good to see some long over due praise for our beloved endurance racing. F1 is getting evermore boring and evermore riddeled with fraud, backstabbing and corruption. Take the whole denial around Alonso's partial electrocution, for instance. To think they can get away with that, blaming his crash 'on the wind' is just an afront to all petrolheads.
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15 Mar 2015, 22:52 (Ref:3515621) | #11 | |||
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16 Mar 2015, 06:39 (Ref:3515691) | #12 | ||
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16 Mar 2015, 07:09 (Ref:3515695) | #13 | ||
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Well if you did not know how many finished you must have fallen asleep
But seriously that race was not very good and i can't see it getting any better to denign F1 has a problem is very blinkered, whilst the WEC is growing and that can not be ignored by the F1 people |
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16 Mar 2015, 11:12 (Ref:3515758) | #14 | |
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11 cars finishing is not the problem. You used to have numbers like that quite often not so long ago due to unreliability+crashes+stalls+pre-qualifyings+whatnot. Even with Australian Grand Prix itself, you only need to look at something as recently as 2008. 15 cars starting is a problem however...
I agree with everything Jay said. Also F1 doesn't care what WEC does. As I always so F1 would still be the most supremely popular motorsport series in the world if all of it was run on Uncle Bernard's backyard with lawn mowers. Last edited by Deleted; 16 Mar 2015 at 11:26. |
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16 Mar 2015, 11:24 (Ref:3515764) | #15 | ||
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I agree with the sentiments of the article but I grow tired of all the F1 criticism. I know it's the "right thing to do" as a sportscar fan to take any opportunity possible to take a swipe at Formula One but to the outsider, it looks like we've got a massive chip on our shoulder. Our side of the sport is meant to be welcoming and inclusive, not some sort of anti-F1 clique.
We have our reasons for preferring the WEC and other series to F1, and we should let others decide if we're mad for holding that opinion by just shutting up and letting the product itself do the talking. Starting from Silverstone, I'm going to try and go through a whole season without mentioning the "F" word. It doesn't do anyone any favours. |
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16 Mar 2015, 16:59 (Ref:3515893) | #16 | |||
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16 Mar 2015, 21:05 (Ref:3515995) | #17 | |||
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Auto racing was different. The technology was always a key part of the sport. For many decades, there was a lot of debate about whether racing drivers were athletes at all. Sportscar racing has maintained a technological presence, and that distinction is an important part of why the series is doing very well now. Fans unhappy with F1's direction are finding WEC does a good job exciting them with technological advancement. Ironically, because the rules allow a little space for the designers to play, it provides better racing action by reducing the parade effect because different cars are better at different parts of the track. |
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Just give them some safety rules, limit the fuel (to control the speeds), drop the green flag, and see what happens. |
16 Mar 2015, 21:16 (Ref:3516000) | #18 | ||
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LMP1 - EoT LMP2 - (by 2017) immensely spec-ified every way imaginable so... ... LMGTE - heavy race-by-race performance balancing & rules breaking waivers & political behind the curtain fights Admittely what they've achieved with P1 is much better than feared, and the fact they (factory cars) can only modify EoT changes once a year is a blessing, but still it's not perfection. It's true that F1 is all about trying to make the drivers the stars, and you have the stupid Super Mario gadgets + entertainment tires + more-and-more spec components in the cars + when someone comes up with innovations they usually get banned. But there is technically no real balancing factor. Mercedes 2014-2015, RBR 2011-2013 and Ferrari 2002/2004 are living proof of that, just to give some examples of more recent domination periods. What WEC does have supreme ruling over F1 of course, is the technological factor (in P1) and road car elements Last edited by Deleted; 16 Mar 2015 at 21:30. |
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16 Mar 2015, 21:59 (Ref:3516021) | #19 | ||
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LMP1 factory-privateer balancing Theoretical BoP in LMP2 - and by 2017 with the spec regs mandatory BoP at Le Mans between American and WEC cars/engines Controlling the gaps between all the classes (If you count it) Some questionable driver categorizations which may lead to exploitations Last edited by Deleted; 16 Mar 2015 at 22:09. |
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16 Mar 2015, 22:21 (Ref:3516033) | #20 | |||
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In the case of P1, EoT is to try to make diesel/petrol balancing more transparent. No diesel, no need for EoT. F1 doesn't have diesels, so it doesn't need EoT. Is there any balancing for how many cylinders your car has? No. Any balancing for whether it's turbo or non-turbo? Only in a general sense where everybody is given the same menu of options to decide how they want to build their car. The fact Toyota runs an atmo V8 while the others are turbos, yet they won the championship, indicates that table is very well constructed to the point most of the competitors, upon making their assessment, concluded turbo was the way to go and yet the team that seemed to be at a disadvantage won. The energy recovery options are aimed at encouraging teams to go big, and that is no secret. It's that way to push the technological development. Pushing the technology, you could win, or you could break. Do you get an advantage based on which energy storage approach you choose? No. In F1, there isn't any need for equivalencies, because the rules specify/design the car. Since everybody is building the same car, of course they are all very close together. So F1 likes to say 'Everybody builds the car to the formula.' That was true 30 years ago, but now, everybody builds the car to a specification. In WEC, everybody builds the car to a formula. |
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Just give them some safety rules, limit the fuel (to control the speeds), drop the green flag, and see what happens. |
16 Mar 2015, 21:33 (Ref:3516008) | #21 | ||
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Now you see, I agree with most of you've said, but not the initial premise. As you've pointed out F1 is doing very well dragging itself through the mud, so I don't see the need for any particular subset of motorsport fans sportscars, rallycross, touring cars, whoever - to bother sticking the boot in. There is a line to be drawn between constructive criticism and flat-out moaning, and if we're honest the latter is seen just as often as the former.
Let's enjoy what we've got and will hopefully continue to receive rather than waste time on lawn-gazing (is this the right phrase?). Edit - Chiana beat me to it, but the WEC isn't immune to equalization either. At least in the case of F1 it is a concerted effort to highlight the driver. The ACO has no such excuse. Last edited by J Jay; 16 Mar 2015 at 21:39. |
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16 Mar 2015, 11:50 (Ref:3515770) | #22 | |
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I continue to hear from some on this board that the prototypes are in no way related to road-going cars but I repeatedly hear the factory teams make statements like this...
Wolfgang Ullrich, Audi’s sporting director, is in no doubt about the purpose behind the effort that has given his team 13 wins in the past 15 editions of the race. “For our company, the point of our participation in motor racing is the development of technology that can be passed on to our road cars,” he told L’Equipe this week. |
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16 Mar 2015, 11:54 (Ref:3515772) | #23 | |
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I'd say it's 50% true, 50% public relations BS
In case of prototypes it's not the cars itself but the technology. GT programmes like Corvette say the exact same thing about the cars and how every new model is the best and closest to the road cars they've ever produced. |
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16 Mar 2015, 13:50 (Ref:3515827) | #24 | ||
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At least that's 50% closer than other series!
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16 Mar 2015, 16:14 (Ref:3515880) | #25 | ||
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Even when the company was in a bad financial shape the small cost (after sponsorship) of the racing programme and the flow back into the road car made corvette certain that they needed it to developpe and sell cars
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