Formula Four

[listernoble]

Does anyone have info on F4 late 1960's-early 70's single seaters?
I have a 1969 Ginetta G17 with all alloy Imp engine (stroked/bored 1098cc),I hillclimb against Vixens and Delta's also running Imp engines and in France Martini's with their own engine.
The formula was short lived as it was overtaken by F Ford almost immediately.
Most of the history books only give a short passsage to the formula,which is a shame as they were light and relatively powerful for their time.
Lister

[davemorganfan]

A good formula - I liked it. F4 was "expanded", if that's the right term, to include the cars that were left over from 1-litre F3 when that ended in 1970. I think I'm right in saying that the screamer engines were detuned in some way to get some longer life out of them. I think they ran in parallel with the Imp engined cars, for a while at least. Alan Morgan, aka Cirrus, who sometimes posts on here and in another place, knows all about F4, although from a slightly later era.

[cirrus]

I wouldn't claim to be an F4 historian, but here is a simplified history of UK F4 (just about any other country with motor racing has their own incarnation of F4). F4 started as a motorcycle-engined formula (250cc?), and Tecno in Italy and JW in the UK made customer cars. In the late sixties, the Imp engine was specified, although the older cars sometimes also ran. The Ginetta, Vixen and Spartan all raced in the UK. This would be about '68 to '73. The demise of the 1 Litre F3 in 1970 led to the inclusion of MAE engines in the mid seventies. These were in full F3 spec (mine had to be warmed up at 3000rpm, had no power below 7500 and was red lined at 10000rpm, where it produced between 115 and 120bhp). Most of the cars at this time were ex-F3, although Low Cost Racing built the Delta IRF4 in 1975 as a "modern" car for the MAE. I built the Cirrus 004 in 1978 for my MAE, having run a Chevron B15 in 1977.

In about 1978 the Ford 1300 was included (with suitable restrictions), and the equivalence obviously worked, because in 1979, Ian Briggs was champion with an Imp-powered Delta based on the FF200, Brian Turner was second with a self-built 1300-powered car, and I was third with an MAE.

More recently, F4 has become more of a Formule Libre, with Ford CVH, ex FF2000 cars, Zetecs and now the inevitable motorcycle engined cless (full circle in a way).

If I get a chance tomorrow, I can post some pictures, if anyone's interested.

[Marcus Mussa]

Hello again from cloudy Monte-Carlo
Today the place is full of people in red T-shirts, drinking beer and speaking with Liverpudlian accents – what is going on?
This 10/10ths thing is rather like a London club scene – members nodding off and waking up weeks later to mutter a reply to some earlier remark from their neighbour, or to take another swig from a warm gin and tonic. The last message on this thread was over a year ago! Is anybody there??
Anyway… I used to race in F4 back in 1969. I raced a Vixen VB1 (I think…) – now don’t ask me the chassis number – nobody cared back then. I remember just that it was the original one converted from a motorcycle to an Imp engine. I bought it from an Italian friend, called Giorgio Costa. The same day he bought a later model (VB4?) from Geoff Friswell, so I actually made out my cheque to Geoff! Those were the days. The key people were Bob Jarvis, Pat Longhurst (who were partners in a car dealership in South London) and Keith Norman. Bob and Keith were the top drivers, real stars. I think Keith drove the “works” Vixen. The Vixen were very pretty cars (in particular the later model) and it was indeed a good series, a bit quicker than FF and only a bit slower than F3 (1000). A lot of races were run in conjunction with FF. I raced mainly at Lydden, but also at Silverstone and Snetterton (the old circuit…). One guy who turned up regularly was Mike Wilds. He was supposed to drive a Walker, but the car never ran, as you might expect. It was built by a certain Johnny Walker. No relation to the whisky! Mike worked for Firestone at the time. I finally traded my Vixen in for an ex-works “Pringett Mistrale” FF. My Vixen was then sold by Pringett to Jarvis and on to … Mike Wilds. He went very well and ended up in F1 – his first action was to throw away the Firestone tyres I used (on the back – I used Dunlops on the front!).
I don’t know what happened to Jarvis – Longhurst sadly died a few years ago. And Keith Norman (if it is the same one) still seems to be as quick as ever, in classic F2 I think.
My car ran the Imp engine, with Reece-Fish carburettors. They were very good and sexy looking, downdraft I think.
I don’t remember a Ginetta – although I had a friend who raced one in FF at the time.
Ah well, back to sleep.
Marcus

[listernoble]

Marcus thank you,currently there are two Ginetta G17's and two Vixens plus at least one Delta running Imp engines in hillclimb events.
Also a Pringett Mistrale FF is a regular competitor.
Beer swilling Liverpudlians,is it a Beatles revival?
Lister

[Marcus Mussa]

Hang on, I'll ask

[Marcus Mussa]

That was a mistake.
I think you are right, something like "back in the USSR", anyway to do with Moscovites.
At the moment they are singing "when the Saints go marching in" but they do not seem to know the words. Must be the beer.
My Pringett Mistrale was ex-Lyanne Engemann - funnily enough I found a photo of her in the car on the Web - I wish I had known her. She was stunning. Do you think she is older now?
I sold it (the car) to someone called Gray I think. He paid Pringett who promptly went bankrupt, but the Pring of Pringett paid me eventually - I had got married in the meantime and had promised to stop racing (this lasted 5/6 years - the stopping racing bit, the marriage is still on, at least it was at lunchtime today). I did not know the cars still existed - does it do historic FF, if not why not? If you want to investigate Pringett Mistrale chassis numbers please count me out. Syd Fox raced the other one - he held the Brands record with it.
Time to go, wish I was going to Oulton this week-end - tried to enter but already 4 reserves in FJ.
All the best
Marcus

[Fris the Whizz]

Hi Marcus, it's only been one and a half years since the last thread, I've just read your's about Giorgio Costa buying my car. I can remember us doing the deal! They were fun days, and a couple of quick drivers you forgot were Bernard Unett in the other works Vixen (in1968) and Keith Blaynee, an ex-sidecar racer, both sadly no longer with us, I attended both funerals. Ironically, most articles seem to dwell on chassis numbers etc, which to me is like watching paint dry, but amazingly I have just come across my old Vixen invioces, whilst looking for a photo as it happened, and my 1969 VB4 was chassis 103 (VB4/103) and cost £355, the other bits, suspension, wheels, dampers, brakes etc, came to £400. All that was then needed was an engine and transaxle unit.

I remember going to Italy and staying in Giorgio's family Villa on Lake Como, it souned idylic but was falling down when we arrived, Keith Norman also stayed with his mate/mechanic Brian (Lamb I think) whatever happened to him, he was a real laugh.

Any more stories out there, if there is I'll start writing!

Happy New Year,

Geoff Friswell.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Fris the Whizz

Hi Marcus, it's only been one and a half years since the last thread, I've just read your's about Giorgio Costa buying my car. I can remember us doing the deal! They were fun days, and a couple of quick drivers you forgot were Bernard Unett in the other works Vixen (in1968) and Keith Blaynee, an ex-sidecar racer, both sadly no longer with us, I attended both funerals. Ironically, most articles seem to dwell on chassis numbers etc, which to me is like watching paint dry, but amazingly I have just come across my old Vixen invioces, whilst looking for a photo as it happened, and my 1969 VB4 was chassis 103 (VB4/103) and cost £355, the other bits, suspension, wheels, dampers, brakes etc, came to £400. All that was then needed was an engine and transaxle unit.

I remember going to Italy and staying in Giorgio's family Villa on Lake Como, it souned idylic but was falling down when we arrived, Keith Norman also stayed with his mate/mechanic Brian (Lamb I think) whatever happened to him, he was a real laugh.

Any more stories out there, if there is I'll start writing!

Happy New Year,

Geoff Friswell.

Geoff, who did you sell the Vixen to? Several were used in sprints and hillclimbs in the early 1970s and remain un-identified.

Thanks.

[Marcus Mussa]

Geoff's car was sold to Giorgio Costa (in 1969), who crashed it almost immediately (at Snetterton?) and then sold it on, but I have no idea who to. It was black, if that helps! Keith Norman had a very big accident in his, so I imagine that car was wrecked. The only other VB4 I remember was the one driven by Jarvis (and Longhurst on occasion). Most of the F4 cars seemed to pass through their hands at some stage. Does anybody know what became of Bob Jarvis? He was rather fun, a typical South London wheeler-dealer, and a very quick driver.

Nice to hear from you Geoff! How come you all got invited to Italy and not me? Was that trip anything to do with the Mugello road race – I seem to remember that Giorgio persuaded Bob Jarvis to enter his Davrian-Imp.

[Fris the Whizz]

Hi Marcus,

After I sold my car to Giorgio, myself and 2 mates decided to go to Monza for the GP, the F4 cars were in a race either before or after, I seem to think, maybe mid week in the evening, and they raced around a shortened track. The three of us stayed in Giorgio's Villa, and Keith Norman and his mate Brian were there also. We didn't dare venture into the kitchen, the downstairs was all shuttered and there was powdered wood all over the place where the wood-worm were eating away the first floors exposed wooden beams. We used a primus stove and baked beans all week, and did all the washing of cutlery and plates in the bathroom in this handy little device that none of us knew what it was............it was the bidet!

In truth I just can't even remember the F4 race, I certainly didn't drive in it.

I saw two Italian GP's Regga won one in the Ferrari, and Rindt was killed in practice, and Peter Gethin won the other in what I believe is still the fastest ever F1 race. He was driving the BRM. Maybe you historians will know the years etc. Anyhow, I know we had a bit of fun, drinking the old vino every night!

Cheers,

Geoff Friswell

[Marcus Mussa]

and you're surprised never to have heard again from Giorgio?

[terence]

Nice to see the names Briggs &Turner again,Brian did actually win the F4 championship two years running,the car was owned by my ex boss Arthur Carter,it started life as a FF2000,But Brian and myself modified it into f4 spec,the car was finneshed in a Purple colour with Cosey Comfort sponsorship,a cousin of Arthurs wife ,good times indeed.

[Dan Rear]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Nice to see the names Briggs &Turner again,Brian did actually win the F4 championship two years running,the car was owned by my ex boss Arthur Carter,it started life as a FF2000,But Brian and myself modified it into f4 spec,the car was finneshed in a Purple colour with Cosey Comfort sponsorship,a cousin of Arthurs wife ,good times indeed.

Based on a Hawke DL14 IIRC, with some Lola T340 bits added in too from memory.

[Leighton Irwin]

You might want to check out the Cdn. F4 site www.formulafour.com Under their forum section Devin Hanes has old pictures of Walkers and Vixens.

[Marcus Mussa]

Here are some F4 photos, from 1968/69, including some sent to me by Geoff Friswell:



Geoff’s Vixen VB1 under construction







The finished article arriving at its first race at Silverstone – as can be seen the crew had been up until all hours getting the car finished!




Geoff’s Vixen next to his Aunt’s Imp



This is Geoff in his VB4 – the car he sold to Giorgio Costa



This is my Vixen VB1, at Lydden Hill (photo by Chris Graves)



A photo I took of a group spectating at Lydden on my very smart VW transporter. Pat Longhurst sits on the roof in his overalls.

[Steve Wilkinson]

There have been 4 drivers who have run Vixen-Imps in the British Sprint Championship:

1971 - David Render - 0.9 Vixen-Imp VB5
1972 - David Franklin - 1.1 Vixen-Imp VB5
1974 - Terry Smith - 1.0 Vixen-Imp VB5
1976 - Nigel Bigwood - 1.0 Vixen-Imp VB5

It wouldn't surprise me to find that the cars used by Franklin, Smith & Bigwood turned out to be the same chassis as they all come from the Bristol area!

Can anyone shed any light on the subject?

[dagriff]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

There have been 4 drivers who have run Vixen-Imps in the British Sprint Championship:

1971 - David Render - 0.9 Vixen-Imp VB5
1972 - David Franklin - 1.1 Vixen-Imp VB5
1974 - Terry Smith - 1.0 Vixen-Imp VB5
1976 - Nigel Bigwood - 1.0 Vixen-Imp VB5

It wouldn't surprise me to find that the cars used by Franklin, Smith & Bigwood turned out to be the same chassis as they all come from the Bristol area!

Can anyone shed any light on the subject?

I think you will find that it was Nige's Dad Chris that owned & drove the Vixen (Nigel may have had the odd drive, I can't remember). Nige started off in an Imp engine Clan (won the South West Championship), then bought the Ensign from Chris.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by dagriff

I think you will find that it was Nige's Dad Chris that owned & drove the Vixen (Nigel may have had the odd drive, I can't remember). Nige started off in an Imp engine Clan (won the South West Championship), then bought the Ensign from Chris.

Ooops! You are correct. In fact it was Chris and not Nigel in the car my mistake.

[dave vass]

I can remember the very beginning of formula 4 in this country. It started with a company called Jonny Walker Holdings (from Wotton-Under-Edge?) who built the JWR F4, a single seater with a 250 motorcycle engine (2 stroke- Greeves or Villiers, I think). I remember a few races with them at Castle Combe, the local circuit, with star motorcycle racer Derek Minter as the 'works' driver. Without getting all my programmes out, I think it only lasted for a season or two and the JW company went bust and F4 with it- until it was resurrected in a different guise!

[dereklola]

Originally Posted by dave vass

- - - a company called Johnny Walker Holdings (from Wotton-Under-Edge?) who built the JWR F4, a single seater with a 250 motorcycle engine - - -

Is this the one you mean - 4 pics - ooops, sorry for bad editing -

[socram]

I seem to remember having my photo taken sitting one (JW4) at a racing car show...

As regards the Ginetta G17, I think Mike Causer (Lotus Club?) had one for a while, but not sure what he did with it. My fuzzy memory seems to think Stuart Graham was a driver of G17?

[M.R.C.]

Originally Posted by socram

I seem to remember having my photo taken sitting one (JW4) at a racing car show...

As regards the Ginetta G17, I think Mike Causer (Lotus Club?) had one for a while, but not sure what he did with it. My fuzzy memory seems to think Stuart Graham was a driver of G17?

Ray? That you??

I had a G8 Formula Three, ex-Stuart Graham. I sold it to someone in a suburb of Nottingham who was trying to put his money into things his soon-to-be-ex-wife wouldn't want to take away.

Is my Lola T212 is still near you in Auckland?


Mike

[dabeca]

The car below is actually a JW4/2 Costin Walker Formula 4. The cars original body work vanished in the 90's and jedi body work fitted in its place it has many owners over the years being very successful in the ASWMC and the irish hillclimb championship. It has had several different engines from Yams, Honda currently a Suzuki and originally a villers 250cc.
I am looking for contact details for a Mr Rod Pickup from up north as he has been mentioned as a holder of a Johnny Walker Register. If anyone has any info it would be much appreciated.

[jw4]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum and have a JW4 which I bought on ebay as a chassis and some bits. It was confrimed as a Johnny Walker by Duncan Rabagliati, having been previously owned by Ian Paskin a fomer works Norton mechanic who raced it in modern 500 racing. Sadly the car only came with Jedi bodywork, I guess the original body disappeared ages ago.

The car was built up by me and fitted with a suzuki 600 engine and is used for hillclimbs.

I have been trying to find out if original bodywork is still available and noticed that green lotus 32 has body moulds although based in America and wondered if there is anybody out there, (closer to Suffolk) who can supply jw4 bodywork.