|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
18 Jul 2006, 10:55 (Ref:1659015) | #1 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 13,000
|
Is this now a dying championship?
Hemelgarn gone. Cheever gone, at least for now. Driver changing at D&R and Foyt. Drivers being linked with NASCAR. A few multi-car teams dominating. Can the championship really survive this run of problems? And how? What can Tony George and co do to turn things around for 2007.
|
||
|
18 Jul 2006, 12:57 (Ref:1659108) | #2 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,676
|
Sadly I don't believe the championship can survive in its current form. Seems that the teams are giving up the ghost so who's going to be there to take part next year. More likely they'll go and do ALMS at the moment I think, if not the obvious route of Champ Cars.
|
||
__________________
"If we are all god's children, what's so special about Jesus?" - Jimmy Carr |
18 Jul 2006, 14:09 (Ref:1659146) | #3 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,885
|
I hope it's almost the end.
It may have given some the opportunity to race and lined the pockets of some, but it never added value to the open wheel scene. You would figure with $200 million of honda, toyota and chevy money pumping through the championship for a few years it would have vaulted the irl to the top step, but even that or danica couldn't do it. Instead it has spiralled downward, with drivers scrambling for a lifeboat, an old creaky car, honda engine leases, poor events, etc. It appears Honda has about given up, with robert clarke's comments again pointing to mr. george holding up a merger. It might be an interesting next six months. Who will replace the $22 million Marlboro sponsorship for Penske? What will rahal do if danica leaves? panther, d&r and foyt are barely making it, will they survive? agr doesn't have the big honda bux they used to, can they field 4 cars on the sponsorship they have? etc. |
|
__________________
Wolverines! |
18 Jul 2006, 14:36 (Ref:1659171) | #4 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,276
|
I think it only spells one thing. Despite the IRL seemingly on a slightly downward spiral, it's not like Champ Car is booming hugely either.
Reunite, gentlemen, and stop talented open-wheel drivers from going the NASCAR way. |
||
__________________
"Many people depend on motor racing for their livelihood, to them it is a business. To me, it is a sport." -Jim Clark |
18 Jul 2006, 14:37 (Ref:1659173) | #5 | |
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 454
|
champcar vs indycars ; pro series vs atlantic... too many series for USA...
|
|
|
18 Jul 2006, 15:02 (Ref:1659200) | #6 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 114
|
in my eyes, I've seen it as a problem created by TG, in that he wanted an American series, with American engines, in American cars, with American drivers, but NASCAR covered those bases along time ago (but now there's JPM...yeah!!!) but it does take two to tango.
regardless, TG needs to throw away his ego and his "vision" and sign up to re-unify the sport ASAP, else he'll go down in history as the one man who killed the Indy 500. |
||
|
18 Jul 2006, 21:34 (Ref:1659489) | #7 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 576
|
If the IRL is a dying championship that must imply that champ car championship is already dead.
Correct? |
|
|
18 Jul 2006, 21:56 (Ref:1659503) | #8 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,064
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
RIP Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011. 2005 & 2011 Indy 500 champion, 2005 Indycar champion RIP Marco Simoncelli, 1987-2011. 2008 250cc champion |
18 Jul 2006, 21:41 (Ref:1659493) | #9 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,900
|
I'm not even convinced a merger will save US open wheel anymore.
|
||
|
19 Jul 2006, 17:44 (Ref:1660156) | #10 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 396
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
18 Jul 2006, 22:01 (Ref:1659506) | #11 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
|
Neither series is doing well. Neither series as currently constitued can survive.
I am sure that I do not want to get into yet another "blame game" as there have been plenty of folks who have contributed to the demise of open wheel racing in North America. Greed, Hubris, Stupidity, Arrogance, Selfishness and Generalized Indifference to the real world have been displayed ad naseum by all creatures great and small. Naturally, no opportunity is wasted to point who may be holding the smoking gun. Such a discussion is a complete waste of time at this point - sort of like having a discussion over a dying lung cancer patient regarding the personal morals of the person who gave them their first cigarette. The ending of the life is far more important and the ending of this "life" of two racing series and what may or may not come next is the greater issue at this time. Curious that things have gotten to the point where an alumnus chooses to return to the US racing scene from F1 via NASCAR and a current "hot commodity" generates ink not by the rumors linking her to another open-wheel team but rumors linking her to NASCAR. Perhaps she is just hedging her bets...my point is that the "ink" followed the NASCAR story - truly in the mind of the casual American race fan, NASCAR is the only series. Anyway, looking at the diminishing car counts in both series' and the diminishing number of sponsors flashing $$, the handwriting on the wall that I see is not encouraging. |
||
__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
18 Jul 2006, 22:04 (Ref:1659512) | #12 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
|
Point on the "new" chassis for CCWS is that after what, six years of use some of these chassis can't go much longer - those Lolas need to be replaced and so this is not a sign of resurgence but a practical necessity.
As far as the "interest" from foreign shores it is still a "cash and carry" system. You can be as interested as you want, but no $$ = no ride. |
||
__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
18 Jul 2006, 22:07 (Ref:1659515) | #13 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,263
|
It looks that way. The IRL had its time at the top a few years back. But the way things have been done is the main reason. What's to say there won't be 17? There is no asurance. And to think the series had around 23 cars a few years back.
The way things are going, Tony's pocket and the money from Honda, and previously Toyota won't last forever. And you can see the affects now. I think the main reason behind this is that the way the teams were brought in from CART. It's driven out all their teams that were part of the IRL, except one or two, ie Panther. That's not to say Champ Car doesn't have it's problems, but Champ Car's new face since OWRS stepped was meant to be a long term thing and you start to see the bright future starting to unfold. Look at what the DP 01 will bring. The open wheel scene in America is just a game of tennis with the momentum bouncing back and forth, but both ships starting to sink... Last edited by luke; 18 Jul 2006 at 22:14. |
||
__________________
The thrill from west hill |
18 Jul 2006, 23:47 (Ref:1659567) | #14 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 611
|
If this is going to be a ***** & moan / IRL vs. OWRS / blame Tony session, then this thread should just be closed.
|
||
__________________
racing is an addiction that once you get it into your blood, no matter how long you sit out, its always there. |
19 Jul 2006, 00:04 (Ref:1659574) | #15 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 576
|
If you are a bigger fan of F1 than the IRL or CART you come from a distorted view. You might follow the series beacuse a driver from your native country is participating. Someday that Brit, Brazilian, Aussie or New Zealander could prove himself and than move up with the big boys in F1. And in order to make F1 they need not run the majority of their races on ovals.
You might even argue its good for the status of a league when a driver "moves on" to F1. Its always positive for a sporting league to confirm their secondary status by having their best drivers defect to another series. NASCAR is a rival to the IRL and Champ Cars and so is F1. I say this as someone who enjoys both series over NASCAR and F1. Thats why I want an end to the war between CART and the IRL. If you have either series best interests in mind there is no other way to look at it. |
|
|
19 Jul 2006, 01:32 (Ref:1659612) | #16 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
|
Agree with you rush1.
Car counts are down in both series, except for the 500 there is no TV viewership to speak of. Still, there is plenty of common ground: most of the major players have been in both series as have a number of the "top" or "name" drivers, if you will and with all of the years of technical know-how available the whole chassis/engine issue should be resolvable without costing everyone an arm and a leg. This battle, where there will be only losers, needs to end and end now. |
||
__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
26 Jan 2007, 17:38 (Ref:1826679) | #17 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 625
|
The IRL is dying, champ car has also not been in good shape, but they have a new car which will help, champ car is definally looknig better of the two. they are expaniding the championpship new car, new teams, more interest. IRL is the same as it has been for god knows how mnay year, with teamsd hjust dropping out because they cant afford to race.
I have followed both series, i personally am an F1 fan, i like champ car and The IRL but im not convined by the irl anymore. i just dont see it happeing. if the IRL didnt have the indy 500, the series would have been dead a long time ago imo |
||
|
26 Jan 2007, 18:14 (Ref:1826717) | #18 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,351
|
Quote:
George is killing the IRL, and worst INDY, but even at most CC boards, they see that CC is just as sick and going nowhere. More interest, by whom? Open wheel will be dead in a few years if something is not done. INDY can survive as an outlaw race, but then George is amazing in making a sow's ear, out of a silk purse. Bob |
|||
|
26 Jan 2007, 18:37 (Ref:1826725) | #19 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,263
|
Quote:
Like I said before if the IRL wants to have more attraction which Champ Car has improved, then it will need a new car etc IMO. |
|||
|
26 Jan 2007, 18:46 (Ref:1826732) | #20 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein |
26 Jan 2007, 23:13 (Ref:1826878) | #21 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 625
|
Quote:
the only things i see good for the IRL this year are more road courses, but what ever happened to the only ovals that george was baging on about? i just done get it. my point being, chamop car are doing something, IRL TO MY KNOWELDGE are just letting their series die. which is a shame as i followed both and liked both. Last edited by Kieran20; 26 Jan 2007 at 23:15. |
|||
|
19 Jul 2006, 02:55 (Ref:1659642) | #22 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,963
|
Totally concur.
|
||
__________________
Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
19 Jul 2006, 03:40 (Ref:1659654) | #23 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,885
|
Everyone wants change. I believe robert clarke(honda) was just quoted as saying every team owner in each series wants a merge, but after another endless, pointless meeting with tony george, mr. george continues to drag feet.
So it appears now it's mortal combat for the two, no merge now or ever. May the best series win. We do compare champ/irl a lot, but just looking at the irl independently of what champcar does, there is no excitement there. No new venues, markets, drivers, etc. It just keeps condensing and sliding downwards with one team liquidation auction after another. At the end of the day, I really don't care that much because we have been playing the same game with tony george back before I even started driving or graduated high school. It's been going on for so long, I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel for any reconciliation or merger for the good of everyone. It's sad for me to watch clips of old CART races and to remember what a great series that was and to think the FIA once though it was a threat to F1! I know that's all the past now, but why did this have to happen? So, despite the bad times, I look to the future and watch Champcar rebuild. There are a lot of us that don't want to be dominated by ovals and nascar and champcar is for us. I'd like to see a time when we call it quits. mr. george can run silver crown cars at indy and we can have our races at Road America and Surfers Paradise. |
|
__________________
Wolverines! |
19 Jul 2006, 05:41 (Ref:1659689) | #24 | |||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,344
|
Quote:
Either it will happen, or it won't and there isn't terribly much that we can do about it, 'cept sit back and let it take its course. |
|||
__________________
"Abe will be remembered as a fighter" - RIP Abe. |
19 Jul 2006, 08:39 (Ref:1659783) | #25 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,263
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
The thrill from west hill |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Why CART is Dying? | Tenoch | ChampCar World Series | 61 | 15 Jul 2003 15:13 |
Least Fearful of Dying? | race aficionado | Formula One | 11 | 9 Jan 2002 15:47 |