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16 Jun 2007, 22:17 (Ref:1939109) | #1 | ||
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To Fuel or Not to Fuel - That is the Question
OK guys - one for the old timers amongst us. Would F1 be a better spectacle if the rules were to change back to the 80's.... ie, start the race on the tank of fuel you're going to finish on, and a 1 hour qualifying shoot out to see who gets pole?
My own personal opinion is that Ferrari's incredulous demands to introduce fuel pitstops (they couldn't run on heavy fuel loads) has made F1 a poor relation to what we used to have 20 years ago. There's so much confusion now what with umpteen pit stops, umpteen strategies and qualifying is largely nullified as we never know who's doing what for the race (this 3 stage setup is ugly, dull and boring). Come on Ecclestone - if you want to look at an entertaining motorsport on which to base your business plan on, look no further than MotoGP or Superbikes. And while we're at it, can we get back to F1 on BBC2 with Murray Walker's dulcit tones across the airwaves and 'The Chain' bellowing out and making the hairs on the back of my neck stand up! |
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16 Jun 2007, 22:25 (Ref:1939119) | #2 | ||
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It was the Brabham team that introduced the fuel pit stops. Gordon Murray and Nelson Piquet to be more precise.
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16 Jun 2007, 23:17 (Ref:1939154) | #3 | |||
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16 Jun 2007, 23:53 (Ref:1939200) | #4 | |||
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17 Jun 2007, 03:21 (Ref:1939320) | #5 | |||
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Like Ralf fan observed it took a long time until Ferrari start to win again, hardly they had benefited from that "change". The Ferrari "win all" conspiracy is related to TGF's era rather than the previous versions of the team... But if you like conspiracies theories, here's a good one... Bernie owned the team at the time of invention of the refueling, so it might have grown on him to bring it back... Anyway, Gordon Murray's ideas have brought many technologies that today are common place, so he deserves to be respected. Last edited by Bononi; 17 Jun 2007 at 03:25. |
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3 Aug 2008, 19:33 (Ref:2262766) | #6 | |
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There should be no fuel stops. Races should be won on the track. It's an art form in itself to set up a car that's good on heavy fuel at the start, gradually lightening through the race and light at the end. Drivers would have to think more about looking after tyres and such like instead of the three flat out sprints that exist now. It would improve the racing imo.
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3 Aug 2008, 20:11 (Ref:2262797) | #7 | ||
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Serious investigation is needed into the problems we saw today. Three pit fires, no matter how minor, is an extraordinary situation - I doubt we've had that many in a decade. The heat might've been a factor, but was that the hottest race since 1994, or will we never have a race as hot again.
I don't really have a problem with fuel stops - they were introduced as a tactical innovation and a way to improve results, banned because they weren't safe in 1984, reintroduced when they became safe (safer than a car crashing on 200 miles worth of fuel, anyway), and I'm not sure they've resulted in inferior races. My memory of the late 80s and early 90s is of processional races in a sport dominated by a single team. We've definitely had more overtakes for points positions this year than in any of those seasons. At least now the cars are in different orders at different stages of the race. |
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1 Oct 2008, 19:23 (Ref:2302271) | #8 | ||
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The "FIA Pit Crew" have a team capable of handling two cars at a time. The tactics of the teams now becomes second guessing what the other teams are doing so that they can ensure an empty pit-box. For Safety Car periods, the pitlane opens after the safety car passes for the first time, and closes when the Safety Car starts it's in lap. Penalties are served in an "FIA Penalty Box" at the exit of Pit Lane, and drivers are allowed to refuel/change tyres but must do so at the "FIA Pit Box" For any other work, the car then proceeds to their own pit box to replace/adjust the wings, put a new drinking bottle in for the driver, stop for a sandwich.... |
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1 Oct 2008, 19:49 (Ref:2302298) | #9 | ||
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Oh and the lollipop man just happends to stand there for a few extra seconds when its a mclaren pitstop to let the red cars through... the FIA are bias enough, without giving them more control to fix race results!
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16 Jun 2007, 22:40 (Ref:1939132) | #10 | |
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Then they were banned after 1983 (a whopping one and a bit seasons) and then re-introduced to "spice up the show" in 1994.
I don't think it was anything to do with Ferrari, more just to make things different. Personally, I see re-fuelling as both an unnecessary danger and a destroyer of races. |
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17 Jun 2007, 09:00 (Ref:1939588) | #11 | |||
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Ironic really, because only 2 seasons later, 1996, nobody used the V12, so there was even less need for refuelling. |
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16 Jun 2007, 22:41 (Ref:1939135) | #12 | |||
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16 Jun 2007, 23:23 (Ref:1939164) | #13 | |||
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Let's face it, perhaps rose tinted, but F1 back in the day was about the drivers first and foremost - not being plugged into a laptop, controlled from the pitwall, dictated to by your race strategist and at the mercy of your 3 in and out laps being better than the rest. Little wonder Ecclestone has to scratch around for new ideas every year to try and get the figures up. F1 is almost akin to playing the Sony equivalent on your PSP.... bloody repetitive and a far cry from purist motor racing. Back to slicks, cut out the fuel stops, reduce the number of laps and get rid of this mind numbing qualies. |
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17 Jun 2007, 15:20 (Ref:1939976) | #14 | |||
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Last edited by dtype38; 17 Jun 2007 at 15:22. |
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16 Jun 2007, 23:15 (Ref:1939151) | #15 | ||
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Regarding pre-2003 qualifying...I personally found it highly satisfactory (including the wait). All they had to do was introduced a rule that said the teams had to complete 3 laps in the first 20 minutes - or something of a similar effect (I personally think it was fine as was, but that would solve the "wait" problem).
I would quite happily see re-fuelling banned. HOWEVER, I do not think, as many seem to, that this would suddenly induce overtaking. The drivers would overtake at the moment if they were able to. |
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16 Jun 2007, 23:50 (Ref:1939195) | #16 | ||
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17 Jun 2007, 00:26 (Ref:1939227) | #17 | |||
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17 Jun 2007, 00:27 (Ref:1939228) | #18 | |||
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A byte walks into a bar and orders a pint. Bartender asks him "What's wrong?" Byte says "Parity error." Bartender nods and says "Yeah, I thought you looked a bit off." |
17 Jun 2007, 00:44 (Ref:1939238) | #19 | ||
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As for the one tyre thing...argh, you have re-opened an old wound. Why did they get rid of that idea! |
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17 Jun 2007, 11:32 (Ref:1939761) | #20 | |||
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16 Jun 2007, 23:38 (Ref:1939185) | #21 | ||
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Bring it back to the driver. No traction control, manual gear changes, no pit to car radio, lots of power, big slicks and no pit stops. Flag to flag driver makes his own decisions without the benefit of 300 hundred other people.
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17 Jun 2007, 00:48 (Ref:1939242) | #22 | ||
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Some would argue because Ferrari were suffering badly as a result.
I'm not saying that is the case, but many would say that. OTOH, if that was the reason, it leaves open hope since there is no tyre war now. |
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17 Jun 2007, 03:43 (Ref:1939338) | #23 | |||
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17 Jun 2007, 09:44 (Ref:1939608) | #24 | ||
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I think every race that's longer than an hour in any form of motorsport does have refuelling. It's the fastest way to complete a 190-mile F1 race, but not the fastest way to complete a 100-mile MotoGP race. In truth, the races are better due to refuelling and tyre stops, as their pace varies much more. I wish it was easier to overtake, but that's primarily an aerodynamic issue.
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17 Jun 2007, 13:15 (Ref:1939893) | #25 | |||
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