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15 Apr 2011, 17:44 (Ref:2863883) | #1176 | |||
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VTG's don't have turbo lag, while normal wastegate turbos can if they're not set up right for a circuit or track conditions. That could be part of the reason for the old 908's wet weather handling issues (stiff springing, bad traction control, more of a peaky power band, and perhaps, turbo lag if in too high a gear). |
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15 Apr 2011, 18:18 (Ref:2863899) | #1177 | |||
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Hi Chernaudi,
Thanks for that info. Back in 2004 when Taurus Sports ran in lmp1 they found torque spikes impossible to map out and they were running wastegated turbos. VG turbos widen the powerband and as these racing diesels run up to 6000 rpm+ this is especially important with the decreased capacity. Do you have a link to the new lmp1/2 regulations? Are you going to lm this June? Best wishes john Quote:
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15 Apr 2011, 18:44 (Ref:2863908) | #1178 | ||
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The Audi R10 ran wastegate turbos as well, as Garrett was only just developing VTGs for racing diesels.
Of course, the Taurus diesel used the 5.0 V10 TDI out of the Volkswagen Toureg/Pheaton, and with no factory support from VW. www.mulsannescorner.com is a good place to start to find the ACO's regs, and IMSA and the ACO's offical sites have PDF files of their sporting and technical regs, too. |
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15 Apr 2011, 19:08 (Ref:2863917) | #1179 | |||
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The main outlines of the 2011 regulations
I found a summary of the technical definitions for the 2011 Le Mans 24 Hours concern 4 precise points: - LM P1 and LM P2 engines: reduction of power, and cubic capacity reduction in LM P1 (diesel, 3.7-litre twin turbo 8 cylinders maximum instead of 5.5 litres, petrol, normally aspirated 3.4-litre 8 cylinders maximum instead of 6 litres, petrol, 2.0-litre turbo 6 cylinders instead of 4.0 litres), in LM P2 (diesel, 4.0-litre turbo 8 cylinders, petrol, 4.0 litres prepared on the basis of 2010 GT2, petrol, 4.5-litre series production). The minimum weight in LM P1 remains at 900 kgs and is increased from 825 to 900 kgs in LM P2. - Hybrid systems aimed at reducing fuel consumption (free development in compliance with precise rules). - Fuel tank capacities (75 litres instead of 90 litres for petrol engines, and 68 litres instead of 81 litres for diesels). - Wheel dimensions unchanged in relation to the 2009 regulations). Quote:
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15 Apr 2011, 19:43 (Ref:2863937) | #1180 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
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BTW I think most of other forum members know the 2011 rules for a while. |
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15 Apr 2011, 21:25 (Ref:2863983) | #1181 | ||
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Quote:
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16 Apr 2011, 09:19 (Ref:2864185) | #1182 | |||
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Hi,
I think upgrading the materials leads to more reliability which is the focus for a 24 hr engine. It's not as though the engine is spinning to f1 speeds. I think the gtl processed fuel allows the engines to rev to 6000+ rpm anyone going to lm in june?? JOhn Quote:
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16 Apr 2011, 10:07 (Ref:2864199) | #1183 | ||
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Quote:
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16 Apr 2011, 12:47 (Ref:2864265) | #1184 | ||
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As was mentioned this is the old car. Video of the new V8 908 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZYxASTvTrQ An odd sound. I realize this is the R18 topic, but it seems there is no Peugeot topic, and I don't have any more than this link to contribute regarding Peugeots so I figured it wasn't worth a new thread. |
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16 Apr 2011, 13:14 (Ref:2864277) | #1185 | |||
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And the video has already been posted there, I believe. |
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16 Apr 2011, 13:44 (Ref:2864285) | #1186 | |||
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Hi,
I am very surprised that audi have gone for a v6 at 616cc per cylinder whereas peugeot's v8 is approx. 462cc per cylinder. I wonder what the bore and stroke are in terms of top end and torque bias? Certainly they don't run any road cars of this capacity per cylinder which is where they bench a single cylinder to analyse the characteristics. Going above 1/2 litre per cylinder is unusual? Anyone got any knowledge on the max rpm these diesel running gtl/ fischer tropsch process fuel? Best wishes John N.B thx for the 908 video link! Quote:
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16 Apr 2011, 15:41 (Ref:2864320) | #1187 | ||
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Fourtitude write up of the Sebring test, and includes and expanded photo gallery:
http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publi...cle_6754.shtml |
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16 Apr 2011, 15:56 (Ref:2864326) | #1188 | ||
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Hybrid electric motors
Hi,
It's a bit annoying that f1 don't quote the max amount of torque available via the electric part of the hybrid system. The strength of using the electric motors is that max amount of torque is immediately available. Therefore, you will see f1 drivers using the hybrid energy for 6.7 secs at the start of the straight which allows them to run more rpm/ bhp as long as the gearing is correct. I hope the aco quote the limited max torque and power (kw) available. John |
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16 Apr 2011, 16:22 (Ref:2864336) | #1189 | ||
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Hi,
Sorry for the moan, it's just torque is the forgotten poor cousin of bhp - and if your a dieselhead......... |
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16 Apr 2011, 16:24 (Ref:2864337) | #1190 | ||
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This matters very little right now, because of how restrictive the ACO's rules are with using KERS as a power boost system (it's automatically activated), and that Audi and Peugeot currently aren't running such a system, as if the diesels have a torque shortage anyways
Also, the Fourtitude article says that the photogs were discouraged by Audi from taking photos directly into the cockpit. That said, there's Audi Sport's own photo of Dumas in the car (which prompted the steering wheel discussion), and there are a few photos into the car showing the wheel and the dashboard, and a brief description of the dash. I'd expect Audi to release more detailed photos at the LM test weekend or the next round to studio shots. |
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16 Apr 2011, 16:35 (Ref:2864342) | #1191 | ||
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16 Apr 2011, 17:40 (Ref:2864367) | #1192 | ||
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Not really as far as the ACO and FIA are concerned--KERS systems on F1 cars is worth about 80 bhp for about 6.5 seconds, and the ACO, for that reason, have restricted the storage capacity to 500kjs, and can be only released automatically to kill off any chance that it can be a purely push to pass system.
Electric motors can release torque, but that's something that the diesels aren't lacking and with the reduced engine power outputs, that 80bhp is more important with the lowered straightline speeds, and without the ACO's restrictions, would likely be used as an F1 type push to pass system. Also, Audi and Peugeot have forgone KERS this year because it adds weight and complexity to the car, and that 80hp might not be worth it until they get the weight down and improve reliablity--Red Bull's KERS system on the RB7 hasn't been especially reliable, for example, but that hasn't stopped their dominance this year, though the gap is closing. However, with Audi and Peugeot design the R18 and the 908 around KERS means that they've thought about it, but it's early to adopt a system on cars that in and of themselves are new. |
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16 Apr 2011, 19:43 (Ref:2864411) | #1193 | ||
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Quote:
Actually the ACO themselves had said KERs is not to be used for performance gain at all, but fuel efficiency: Art 1.13: The use of such a system must not be aimed at obtaining additional power but at reducing fuel consumption. |
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16 Apr 2011, 19:52 (Ref:2864416) | #1194 | |||
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I am not sure how that would work - maybe to get and out of the pit lane/ box |
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16 Apr 2011, 19:57 (Ref:2864419) | #1195 | |||
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And it works, the 911 GT3-R hybrid got 1 or 2 laps more than anyone else out of its tank of fuel at the Nurburgring last year (and considering that a stint there is 8-9 laps...) |
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16 Apr 2011, 21:04 (Ref:2864441) | #1196 | |
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if I'm not mistaken, the GT3-RH had a different size fuel tank than the other 911's so it's hard to directly compare their fuel economy...
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16 Apr 2011, 21:06 (Ref:2864444) | #1197 | ||
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Hi,
Does anyone know if the audi / peugeot diesels have compound or bi-turbos John |
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16 Apr 2011, 21:43 (Ref:2864465) | #1198 | ||
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An example of such a configuration http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...ine/index.html The turbo on that one is pretty interesting, a 'single sequential' unit whereby two compressors are driven by a single exhaust turbine. |
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17 Apr 2011, 06:13 (Ref:2864711) | #1199 | ||
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17 Apr 2011, 12:30 (Ref:2865004) | #1200 | |||
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Hi,
I can see the sense of using 1 vg turbo in the v of the cylinder banks. However, turbos work more efficiently when the exhaust gas pulses are at 120 degree intervals as per 1980's f1 turbo twin turbo v configuration. John Quote:
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