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16 Jun 2017, 20:42 (Ref:3742326) | #76 | |
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I only started watching IndyCar in 2014, so I appreciate that I do not have the knowledge of previous circumstances that others possess, but after a week of thought I believe that last week's race was just a perfect storm. New surface, lack of testing, lack of driver consensus, dodgy tires, competition cautions etc. all contributed to the mess.
From memory, I was much more on edge during the Fontana 2015 race, however I'm sure a lot can be done to improve the show. From a European's point of view, I believe that IndyCar is usually incredibly proactive in dealing with this sort of stuff and it's probably the toughest series in the world to govern. I don't agree with pack racing, but every now and then if it comes up by accident then so be it; they are racing drivers after all. |
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17 Jun 2017, 02:28 (Ref:3742403) | #77 | ||||
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
17 Jun 2017, 03:54 (Ref:3742415) | #78 | ||
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If that's not apparent for you it never will be. You've agreed to disagree, so let's leave it there.
This particular event was a net loss for owners and will have more lasting impacts beyond the race, regardless of who got paid what. Unnecessary risk of life for "peanuts". That's a great business model. Last edited by fieldodreams79; 17 Jun 2017 at 04:02. |
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17 Jun 2017, 05:25 (Ref:3742437) | #79 | |||
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No doubt teams lost money at Texas - but no different than Pheonix or Indy |
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
17 Jun 2017, 13:21 (Ref:3742572) | #80 | ||
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Where's the info on Indy and PIR?
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"Knowing that it's in you and you never let it out Is worse than blowing any engine or any wreck you'll ever have." -Mike Cooley |
17 Jun 2017, 17:33 (Ref:3743001) | #81 | |
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Everyone involved pointed this out as a HUGE loser for the teams so I'm thinking they might actually know that these damages are really painful. No one mentioned this for either previous race so I'm thinking teams weren't really concerned about the cash at those races. The quality of racing at PIR, yes that was a huge concern. And the winner's circle money didn't help a few teams, there are a few that don't qualify for it yet. Those who get it have already calculated that money in to the annual budget so using it to say damages will be covered is completely ignoring how the series works.
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18 Jun 2017, 02:00 (Ref:3744025) | #82 | ||||
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For example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM7VCURsoIw You don't think that Andretti Autosport, Coyne etc lost money at Phoenix? Quote:
The cash is the same for Phoenix as it was for Texas - so I am not sure why its an issue for Texas but not for Phoenix? Quote:
If you aren't factoring Leaders Circle money into your crash/repair/maintenance budget is ludicrous Last edited by D.R.T.; 18 Jun 2017 at 02:09. |
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
18 Jun 2017, 02:37 (Ref:3744052) | #83 | ||
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18 Jun 2017, 03:03 (Ref:3744067) | #84 | ||||
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Texas is just as dangerous as Indy, for a fraction of coin and prestige of winning. Not worth it. |
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"Knowing that it's in you and you never let it out Is worse than blowing any engine or any wreck you'll ever have." -Mike Cooley |
18 Jun 2017, 07:36 (Ref:3744266) | #85 | |
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I remember a clean pack race in which drivers showed a lot of respect to each other. That happened at Chicagoland back in 2010 and is remembered for Sarah Fisher having led a few laps.
At Texas, it showed that many of today's drivers are not good pack racers. I feel when it comes to protecting other drivers in such situations, drivers who have run in IndyLights in the past, really are at an advantage over those who haven't. Look at Gabby Chaves. He drove a clean race and finished 5th for a new team in only their 2nd race. How come this guy does not have a full season ride? The replay I have seen of this past Texas race reminded me most of what I saw when I re-watched an old IRL race from the late 90s that was held at Dover Downs. That Dover race is remembered for being the last IRL start of Dr. Jack Miller who got taken out in a crash of 3 cars, and it was a real "crash fest". Yet, still, there was more green flag racing there than at IndyCar's only visit to NOLA Motorsports Park. But I digress. At Texas, drivers were way too impatient and not cautious enough. Add to that the fact that both the series and the tire manufacturer didn't prepare near well enough for the new surface. That resulted in too many open variables and an unpredictable level of danger to drivers and machinery which, luckily, only resulted in a hefty repair bill for many of the teams. Even with the limited amount of tire testing that had happened, a lot of the turmoil on track could have been prevented if there had not been those "competition cautions" to fix the problem with tire wear. Why didn't Firestone just order the teams to bring cars in after a certain number of laps? That could have happened under green flag conditions and would have enabled the field to spread out more, whereas the yellow flag periods just bunched the pack back together time in time again. Sure, it's much easier to organize a full course caution if you are race control than to have to potentially black-flag every car individually for a mandatory tire stop but it would have made for a better and most importantly, a safer race. Last edited by Yannick; 18 Jun 2017 at 07:42. |
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18 Jun 2017, 15:06 (Ref:3744828) | #86 | ||||
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What the concern is here - that apparently its different crashing cars and spending money at Phoenix and Indy compared to Texas I don't understand this as it creates the same whole in the budget. Write a tub off at Texas and its negligence, stupidity and unnecessary but write one off at Phoenix and its just one of those racing things Its the same outcome for the teams like DCR and AA. It appears that there is a separate agenda against Texas which crash damage is being used to push such an agenda |
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
18 Jun 2017, 15:20 (Ref:3744838) | #87 | |||
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18 Jun 2017, 17:21 (Ref:3744899) | #88 | ||
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And no, it's not an anti-texas stance. It's a stop ignoring the fact that millions were lost because the cars and ESP the tires were not suited to the track. A FACT that has been known since last year, Firestone could not retest to gather more data and the cars could not be driven as they should. Management decided, because they like that a$$hat of a promoter at TMS, that he race shall go on. No, no it shouldn't. Texas has always been a crap race, the first year drivers had medical problems and vision problems for weeks after the race. Everyone knew the tires would be destroyed but they pushed on, everyone knew the track would not be conducive to pack racing, a lost art in open-wheel as it is, with these cars. High banked ovals are not what these cars do but this obsession to run them and WASTE money shows cluelessness and a personal ego stroke fest for upper management. There were probably more people at the Taco Bell in Indy that night then at Texas but they go back. It has never had the attendance of PIR so why waste the effort. And why can we not decide one is worse than the other?? NO ONE said PIR wasn't a waste. Texas was a waste beyond all measure and the dumbest thing Indycars have done since listening to Tony George. |
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19 Jun 2017, 02:51 (Ref:3745049) | #89 | |||||||
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Was 2016 a crap race? For example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv8KNya9aeA Quote:
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Texas has had some of the strongest crowds in Indycar outside of the 500 for many many years. A lot lot more than PIR |
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
19 Jun 2017, 10:23 (Ref:3745149) | #90 | ||
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19 Jun 2017, 12:18 (Ref:3745188) | #91 | ||
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19 Jun 2017, 12:32 (Ref:3745196) | #92 | |||
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Interesting request - especially considering previous discussion regarding providing evidence.
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http://www.azcentral.com/story/sport...018/308052001/ |
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
19 Jun 2017, 12:38 (Ref:3745199) | #93 | ||
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19 Jun 2017, 12:51 (Ref:3745203) | #94 | ||||
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Clearly it did in 2016 and 2017. Apples with apples. Quote:
In regards to the tire testing - Firestone had one test only. Common consensus is have more testing and develop a new compound and get back racing. Out of interest - which one of these races were wreckfests or snoozes? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI-5xyK9oeg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxaHICyFuVY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-rTGLG9yu0 |
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
19 Jun 2017, 12:54 (Ref:3745206) | #95 | ||
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That's capacity NOT attendance, there's no backtracking. Texas has never had 181k at the track for openwheel. And PIR used to be packed at 50k. far cry from 20k at a 180k track. |
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19 Jun 2017, 13:35 (Ref:3745220) | #96 | ||
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I am talking about 2016 and 2017.
No good bringing up what PIR 'used to have' - it was a different time, different formula and different drivers. Apples with apples mate. Texas has and currently does have a lot more in the stands than PIR - despite your previous posts. |
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
20 Jun 2017, 02:21 (Ref:3745407) | #97 | |||
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I love oval racing and OW cars on ovals. I just don't like OW cars at Texas. I understand that even though I don't like this track/race, some do. That's fine with me.
Looking at posts on this forum from previous 4 races (because this forum is the epitome of correct opinions), most opinions (outside my own) of Texas seem to be either "crazy scary" or "meh". Here are some “excuses” for questionable driving standards which leads to a few more questions for the current management of the series. http://sports.usatoday.com/2017/06/1...-half-of-2017/ Quote:
However, according to Miller/Pruett podcast, NBC Ratings were up this year from last year's Texas race, fwiw. That could be due to many factors including the postponement of last year's event to the sheer bat$hit craziness of this years, or the general uptick in series popularity. Here's what they looked like at Barber and Road America last year and Detroit this year. Granted, it's a little out of context here, but attendance numbers are tough to find. It does leave me wondering what is going with the speedway attendances, outside of Indy. This is perhaps best left to the “state of IndyCar” thread…. Detroit: 100K over the weekend (combined with IMSA) – (30K for Sunday and Race 2) http://motorsports.nbcsports.com/201...gure-of-83765/ Barber: 86K over the weekend (30K for Race day) http://www.dbusiness.com/daily-news/...ation-Records/ Road America is around 50K for race day http://www.indycar.com/News/2016/06/...r-Road-America |
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20 Jun 2017, 13:34 (Ref:3745519) | #98 | |||
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I was hoping for this year's attendance figures for PIR and TMS. |
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20 Jun 2017, 15:07 (Ref:3745530) | #99 | |||
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It's frustrating to this convo because very few speedways release figures, if I'm correct. Looking for Iowa's last year, it's stated here they don't release figures, but it's becoming a "crown jewel". http://www.thegazette.com/subject/sp...eries-20150719 Again, I think I'm delving into state of IndyCar with attempts to find numbers for comparisons... |
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20 Jun 2017, 15:21 (Ref:3745532) | #100 | |||
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