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4 Oct 2017, 11:09 (Ref:3771728) | #1 | ||
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Colour vision test
I see that due to the introduction of LED lightboxes at circuits, MSA are mandating colour vision tests as part of the race licence medical from January. Given that around 10% of the male population have some form of colour vision deficiency I wonder if this will cause early retirement of some drivers?
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4 Oct 2017, 11:28 (Ref:3771736) | #2 | |||
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4 Oct 2017, 11:58 (Ref:3771751) | #3 | ||
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I did think the red/green colour test was always part of the medical.....not sure why they need to retest this every year though, as I am pretty sure you are either colour blind or not, and this does not change!
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Will Stephens 60s endurance 1965 356sc #49 Mag 7's #60 |
4 Oct 2017, 12:02 (Ref:3771753) | #4 | ||
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4 Oct 2017, 12:18 (Ref:3771757) | #5 | ||
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Did wonder when I read the MSA Blue Book updates just how much more complicated this new test was going to be, and why seeing LED light boxes was any harder than seeing a flag?
Perhaps its to do with the colour Purple? Although I do know one driver who's medical allegedly included the Doctor asking him "what colour is this red pullover I'm wearing?" |
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Richard Murtha: You don't stop racing because you are too old, you get old when you stop racing! But its looking increasingly likely that I've stopped.....have to go back to rallying ;) |
4 Oct 2017, 12:49 (Ref:3771765) | #6 | ||
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Will Stephens 60s endurance 1965 356sc #49 Mag 7's #60 |
4 Oct 2017, 12:55 (Ref:3771766) | #7 | ||
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4 Oct 2017, 17:30 (Ref:3771830) | #8 | ||
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The correct answer was green as the question was what colour is my green jumper.
Way back when I applied for my original race licence the original test was the multi coloured dot and number one as proposed now, and I was unable to reach the required standard. My GP at the time also attended race meetings in a professional capacity and I remember him contacting the RAC, as it was at the time, on my behalf pointing out that although I could not reach the required standard of the official test, my colour vision was adequate to recognise the required flags. Following this the requirement was changed to the current simple colour recognition in the blue book. I'm sure I was not alone with this and I can only see, as mentioned previously, a lot of early retirements and loss of revenue to the MSA. When will they stop putting obstacles in the form of rule changes in the way of competitors every year and instead think of helping and retaining them. |
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4 Oct 2017, 19:34 (Ref:3771854) | #9 | |
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I have held a competition licence for over 20 years, I am also colour blind in the sense of the test. My doctor was confronted with an armful of Marshals flags that I borrowed from my local circuit. Having correctly named all the flags I duly passed the test and have not had a problem since. I have twice had my medical by a participating Motor racing doctor who conducted the test with some neat individual plastic wallets with relevant colours inside . I passed this also.
Over twenty plus years I have never had a Marshal flag or light recognition problem ! I have been preparing a car over the last couple of years at some consideable expense, to now be facing the fact that this new requirement will probably prevent me from racing it and leave me many pounds down at the same time. A case of re inventing the wheel at some disruption to a good few Competitors who will no longer be applying for a licence! A considerable loss of revenue for the MSA. I cant see why,having held a licence for twenty plus years with no problems why I cannot now have one!! |
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5 Oct 2017, 04:42 (Ref:3771957) | #10 | ||
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Over here you have to go to an optitians for the test.Dont know if the owner of the group is a member of the DMSB board though.No more stress related for my Int C.
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Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me. |
5 Oct 2017, 14:09 (Ref:3772094) | #11 | ||
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this comes completely out of the purple for me.....
RuE |
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5 Oct 2017, 15:14 (Ref:3772103) | #12 | ||
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[QUOTE=oneofapair;3771854]Over twenty plus years I have never had a Marshal flag or light recognition problem ! QUOTE]
I started racing in 1969 and have had a few yellow flag problems, like a few of us have had !! Last edited by GORDON STREETER; 5 Oct 2017 at 15:19. |
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Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa ! |
5 Oct 2017, 16:17 (Ref:3772110) | #13 | ||
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Richard Murtha: You don't stop racing because you are too old, you get old when you stop racing! But its looking increasingly likely that I've stopped.....have to go back to rallying ;) |
6 Oct 2017, 08:13 (Ref:3772263) | #14 | ||
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When I started racing learned on the hard way that if the sky looks green and the grass looks blue, this means you rolled the car
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6 Oct 2017, 10:25 (Ref:3772273) | #15 | ||
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6 Oct 2017, 11:37 (Ref:3772279) | #16 | ||
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22 Nov 2018, 08:34 (Ref:3864935) | #17 | ||
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These new rules are worrying me a little.. so much so that I feel an approach is needed to the MUK / FIA.. I wonder what their position is regarding the discrimination toward 75% of the male population who have some form of colour blindness.. red / green being the most common..
I have been thinking a lot about this and the fact that legally the MUK must be prepared to make reasonable adjustments to counter discrimination.... I have always been OK differentiating primary Red and green and seeing flags but they are now saying that with the use of light boxes there is a need to pass a colour test and achieve a minimum score... It strikes me that the MUK can make a very simple adjustment which in my mind won't cost any money to implement and will remove any issue with colour blind drivers completely... We all know the flag signals (well most of us do so consider this.... Red. Is always held out (not waved) to indicate session stopped Yellows are waved... Yellow lights Flashed.... But we can see yellow!! Blues.. Flash (we have no issue with Blue) Green is generally waved as a flag but left fixed illuminated as a light... The solution is very simple... Just make the RED light a permanently immuminated light... All others Flash!!! That way us colour impaired folk will see either a green flashing light which we know is flashing so even if we think it is Red we know it is Green.. and when we see a Red fixed light which we might think is green, We will know it is Red... No changes required to any flags, or light boxes!! I wonder if the MUK / FIA have even considered this before again placing barriers in the way of Blokes who just want to go racing.. I say Blokes because genetically colour impairment affects 75% of men to a greater or lesser degree!! This years medical remains a worry to me. !! |
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22 Nov 2018, 10:22 (Ref:3864951) | #18 | ||
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I always understood colour deficiency affected c. 10% of males
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/colour-vision-deficiency/ but moving on.... it may not be anything like the problem you think it is. Dr Mark Green of Motor Racing Medics has been working with MUK on this subject since way back last year, and has developed an LED lightbox test which MUK recognise as a valid replacement if one cannot pass the Ishiwara book tests. I can only pass 3 of Ishiwara (not the 24 required) but the lightbox was not a problem. Once the colour test has been passed it is logged on the MUK system and you do not have to re-take it annually. Try not to worry but I do recommend you give MSM a call. Don't forget you don't have to go to Gatwick as they run a clinic at Autosport in the New Year on a pre-booking basis. |
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22 Nov 2018, 18:58 (Ref:3865066) | #19 | |||
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22 Nov 2018, 20:09 (Ref:3865072) | #20 | |
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Maybe it's time to play the discrimination card.
After all there is no reason at all why the lights system should not be changed to make it more inclusive. |
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22 Nov 2018, 22:15 (Ref:3865107) | #21 | ||
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Great thinking, maybe the administrators need to pass an IQ test before they are allowed to take office, and maybe an oath that they are required to facilitate participation in racing. Could also leave a dirty great black X in the middle of the red light box to indicate that the track is red flagged. |
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23 Nov 2018, 09:02 (Ref:3865205) | #22 | |
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I am amazed at the suggestion that 75% of the male population has some form of colourblindness. A quick google suggests it's more like 8%. What am I, or the poster who made the suggestion, missing? A decimal point, perhaps?
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23 Nov 2018, 09:46 (Ref:3865208) | #23 | |
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An 18 year old could pass the 2016 test under the requirements back then,and then has until reaching 40 years or so( self declaration) filling in licence application before he reaches the need to have medical each year.
Is that age discrimination? |
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23 Nov 2018, 14:50 (Ref:3865235) | #24 | |
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Like many men, I have a red/green defect.
In my latter year's of racing, I learned how to 'trick' the Ishihara Test (the pages of coloured dots) - knowing I had the defect, I looked behind the obvious answer and generally did OK. In the early days, they used to have the RAC quack wave flags around at Belgrade Square. The only time I have ever had an issue with colour vision was on the footplate of a train. On a particularly straight and level stretch of track outside York the block signalling could be seen numerous sections into the distance. The driver could see that the furthest signal was green - I could see the light but couldn't tell its colour. Not being able to identify a 24w bulb at about 5 miles has never really caused me a problem! |
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26 Nov 2018, 19:55 (Ref:3866157) | #25 | |||
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The MUK it seems is happy for clubs to have to spend a fortune on re-branding surely this would make things more inclusive for everyone, add clarity to everyone..worst case being the need for a new flag with a symbol incorporated.. Perhaps as an alternative the Green flag / or light box with the national speed limit sign It seems as usual people are devising work around tests to fall back on when the std tests cannot be passed. There should be absolutely no need for such tests when the whole issue can be eliminated without any difficulty! Maybe these thoughts and comments are just far to simple for the higher echelons of the motorsport world to consider.... !! I wonder what the Chair of the MUK would think. Last edited by Heightswitch; 26 Nov 2018 at 20:01. |
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