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19 Sep 2014, 16:33 (Ref:3455124) | #276 | ||
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19 Sep 2014, 16:33 (Ref:3455126) | #277 | ||
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19 Sep 2014, 16:37 (Ref:3455127) | #278 | ||
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Contact and RC actions are organizational mindset differences. These are not different 'styles' of racing, but different approaches to the same thing. Look, if LMP1 was a new never before seen formula created for this year it would be more acceptable to see them limiting themselves to Grade 1, but since 12 months ago these cars were running at Lime Rock or wherever this kind of BS from Neveu makes mockery of it. |
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19 Sep 2014, 16:41 (Ref:3455130) | #279 | ||
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IMSA ran the cars at Lime Rock, and it's IMSA that's preventing LMP1 at Sebring. I did mention something along these lines on the previous page, as long as IMSA runs the 12 Hours with TUSC there won't be a WEC race at Sebring, neither the 12 Hours nor a standalone race at a different time of year (although that one for probably different reasons).
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19 Sep 2014, 16:48 (Ref:3455135) | #280 | |||
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It's not who run them but the fact that we know these cars can take non-F1 tracks. And Lime Rock was just an example, if you want ACO let's throw Road Atlantas and Zhuhais of three years ago
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Anyway, while I would still rather see the "6 Hours of Sebring" in October than anything they have in store for the F1 tracks, I do agree that it would be rather shadowy figure in contrast to the 12 hours. Of course it would be. That's why I would rather see P1 integrated to NAEC. But since IMSA/NASCAR won't bother, they could still organize races at Laguna or Road America or Road America and they certainly wouldn't be in the shadow of anything. But as we know that's not gonna happen. There are positives of WEC such as the seemingly blooming LMP1. But that shouldn't mean that we can't laugh at such absurd ignorant comments as mr Neveu has given us again. |
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19 Sep 2014, 16:51 (Ref:3455138) | #281 | ||
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Have you already forgotten the accidents at Le Mans in recent years? These cars are very very fast and dangerous in the wrong environments. Three big time manufacturers going all out is not the same as some privateers racing LMP1 cars for fun in the ALMS as in recent years. We have already had some scary LMP1 crashes at Sebring in testing with no other cars around, one of these crashes was severe enough to sideline a driver for half a season. The FIA and the WEC are just being responsible in confining these cars to safe tracks, having one track in the calendar that already does not really meet current safety standards is plenty of risk in my book. |
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19 Sep 2014, 16:52 (Ref:3455139) | #282 | ||
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Correct, neither of these is going to happen: NAEC is still TUSC, so that's the major hanging point because of TUSC's top class, while starting from scratch now with a different US round, even at a proper track like those two, is simply not going to work as a standalone event. So different solutions are needed for WEC races in North America.
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19 Sep 2014, 16:53 (Ref:3455140) | #283 | ||
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19 Sep 2014, 16:55 (Ref:3455141) | #284 | |||
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19 Sep 2014, 16:56 (Ref:3455142) | #285 | ||
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Get off of Sebring. He swept ALL of the other tracks here out the cutting room floor. He didn't even mention Road America or Mosport Park! Hell, the way they're going with the latter, it will look like a Grade 1 circuit soon enough, with all that paved run-off and new buildings and the like.
Safety, necessity, or technical requirements do NOT have **** to do with this, or Grade 1 circuits. It's convenience, image, perceived prestige, etc. THEY just want THEIR fancy little private, exclusive club. And again, LMP1 only needs a Grade 2 circuit. There are plenty of those in North America; just look at where the ALMS went. Lime Rock gets a historical exemption, I suppose, but apart from that, a circuit only need be 3.0-km to make Grade 2, and Laguna Seca CAN easily handle 30 cars for a six-hour race. So, once more, "technically impossible" is a load of bovine fecal matter. It's merely code for, "You're just not good enough for us, because we say so, and we don't wanna go there." Acid, the tracks ALMS used would be fine. Bad accidents happen EVERYWHERE! And these high-downforce cars, including LMPs, Indy/Champ Cars, F1, etc, have ALWAYS had some issues with sudden, vertical impacts. The tracks have comparatively NOTHING to do with that aspect of it; that's a car design issue. Paved run-offs are a convenience, as is having the barriers a couple post codes away. And while they do all this, they turn the fanbase off, because they restrict access, and take away NECESSARY frames of reference that allow the cars and drivers to look like they're actually doing something impressive, awe-inspiring, and worthy of our respect. If they make the tracks like parking lots with painted lines, well, the drivers aren't respecting them, so why should we?! I mean, if the participants don't even consider the venues to be worth giving that extra measure of effort, precision, restraint, caution, and respect, those tracks DON'T DESERVE those things from us! What I have just stated is why these Tilke F1 circuits will NEVER be loved or revered like the old greats, because they DON'T PERMIT the sensory impact that CAN COMPEL a person to find that love for the sport and for that place in which it occurs. You wonder why "established" motorsport is having such difficulties drawing new fans? The is a HUGE part of it. Last edited by Purist; 19 Sep 2014 at 17:16. |
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19 Sep 2014, 16:59 (Ref:3455143) | #286 | ||
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II - I guess Duval was in the middle of an intense on track battle when he had his horror crash at LM this year... |
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19 Sep 2014, 17:02 (Ref:3455144) | #287 | ||
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Yes, teams are now taking ever more risks now in the traffic AND with the tracks. But here comes the negative side of these asphaltdromes and widened expansions - drivers (as they should) are looking for every opportunity for quicker lap time, and now that you can shortcut corners and chicanes almost everywhere the risk level rises exponentially. With no grass or gravel you don't have to respect the track anymore but can violate it almost everywhere without consequence from both lap time or race control actions (just watch Corvette Corner at LM). That leads to accidents -> over confidence. When Audi vs Pug (ie pretty much as fierce as top fight is now) was at the mightiest they raced at Sebring and PLM and wherever without issues. |
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19 Sep 2014, 17:03 (Ref:3455145) | #288 | |
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Bolding some words doesnt make them mean something specific. Going to have to look for the context of his words. Questions must have been asked. You cant run with Tusc all the time. The tracks in question probably arent willing to sign on for a standalone wec event, or someone else is pulling their strings. No way to have 4 races in the U.S. alone, so where you go is not a 'pick and choose' deal. Common sense says they want a certain thing, but the choices are small if theyre going to be succesful. Taking apart the article by sentences and words doesn't read the way its intended. Its more "finding fault".
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19 Sep 2014, 17:04 (Ref:3455146) | #289 | ||
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Personally, I think sticking to Grade 1 tracks outside of Le Mans is a wise choice, not only is it safer but these circuits also allow the kind of interruption-free racing the WEC has been providing and couldn't at Sebring or Road Atlanta. |
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19 Sep 2014, 17:06 (Ref:3455147) | #290 | ||
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Personally, I don't see the issue here. There's another fine Grade 1 track in NA the WEC can go to (Montreal) and with two races in NA the continent would have its appropriate share of races within the current scope of the WEC calendar. |
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19 Sep 2014, 17:09 (Ref:3455148) | #291 | ||
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19 Sep 2014, 17:18 (Ref:3455149) | #292 | |
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You make your own heritage. You cant just rely on the past. Mexico City has a long history. Same for Montreal. The wec isnt in the past, its here now and wants to make its name known. Theyre going to have to do it somehow.
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19 Sep 2014, 17:24 (Ref:3455153) | #293 | ||
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Neveu should have realized that his words contained some 'arguable' comments, they were not my choice but his. |
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19 Sep 2014, 17:25 (Ref:3455154) | #294 | |||
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19 Sep 2014, 17:30 (Ref:3455156) | #295 | |
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Going to Laguna Seca or Road America or Mid-Ohio or something like that as standalone event would't be relying on history. They could make their name there right now and most likely get larger crowds than at Texas heat (especially if paired up with local domestic series). But ignorant "technical" excuses as these that allegedly prevent them from even considering these venues and artificially locking themselves to grand total of three possible options don't help in that.
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19 Sep 2014, 17:51 (Ref:3455162) | #296 | |
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And what if the F1 model doesn't work in WEC? Well, it's their fault right? Nope, they'll wash their hands as if they don't have anything to do about its failures.
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19 Sep 2014, 18:01 (Ref:3455163) | #297 | |
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Ok, I'm calming down (watching some IMSA racing helps sometimes! ), thx for the lively discussion everyone, I've enjoyed it so far!
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19 Sep 2014, 18:20 (Ref:3455168) | #298 | ||
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Acid, did you see last year's Grand-Am race at Austin? One of the DPs was launched off of the sausage curb at the entry to the esses (Turn 3-9). What would be the consequences of that for an LMP1, going much faster, and weighing 400+lb less?
These asphalt run-offs created short-cutting, so now they try to add speed bumps, and we're seeing what happens as a result of that. We had the GP3 car at Spa, and Heidfeld in Formula E at Beijing. Also, one of those speed bumps at Les Combes tipped over an F3 car last year, and a third to a half of the entire bloody field is apparently so desensitized by how sanitized these tracks have become that they completely ignored the FCY that came out, as a result of that flipped car, and had a 6-9-car smash-up on the run down into Houhon! Did you see Kimi Raikkonen's crash at this year's British GP? Spa has seen bad incidents since the changes from 2006 to 2007, and it's a Grade 1. Someone was killed in an incident at the big Vintage gathering at Silverstone, of all places, this summer. So, these "safety" measures are hardly a guarantee, and since they encourage more bad driver behavior, they make things MORE dangerous, given the utter rarity of catastrophic mechanical issues these days. Also, the Grade 1 standard is inconsistent. You tell me I'll get people killed building a new track to that older standard, but those older tracks are still allowed to be around in F1. Why?! Either the Laws of Physics, and no other "authority", decree something is safe, or it isn't, period! |
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19 Sep 2014, 18:21 (Ref:3455169) | #299 | ||
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Big LMP crashes of the last few years at LM have kept happening not so much because of the "danger" of the circuit, but because of the said ever increasing asphalt expansions, increasingly ill judged traffic decisions from GTs (like Toyota 12) or protos (like Audis 11), changing dynamic of the class structure, weather, as well as the fact that it's the only race that really really matters so everyone's pushing. |
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19 Sep 2014, 18:22 (Ref:3455171) | #300 | ||
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Racing in glorified parking lots in the Middle East in front of a few oil barons in the suites and a camel that happens to be passing by is not 'making your own heritage'.
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