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26 Feb 2016, 20:34 (Ref:3618079) | #426 | ||
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I mean if they cant get decent parity between V8ST & TLX cars then whats the hope if you add hybrids in?? Also would that actually bring any cars out of sheds, or would it just pinch them from other existing classes? It will be an interesting year in the V8SC 2nd level Dunlop Series this year with 2 different spec cars & will be interesting to see how their season progresses. I think the P word will feature prominently. |
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26 Feb 2016, 21:11 (Ref:3618089) | #427 | |||
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"If you say it, stand by it" |
27 Feb 2016, 00:40 (Ref:3618145) | #428 | |||
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27 Feb 2016, 01:29 (Ref:3618151) | #429 | ||
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I'm sure there are competitors in those existing open classes that have no interest at running T1 events and that schedule. So why dilute those classes that you have indicated are doing so well. As Promax indicated Lack of interest? Too many burnt bridges? Lack of money? Add to that the years of infighting between ST, TLX and MSNZ has given no confidence in the sport to any prospective sponsors. Why would you invest when the public spats between these groups has shown that the sport in general was in such a bad state. Those sponsorship dollars will have gone elsewhere, and I'm sure will not return just because someone says the problems have been resolved. |
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27 Feb 2016, 02:17 (Ref:3618156) | #430 | |
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Fall of your key-board's laughing, but I also agree with Martin, because after all the years trying to make a level playing field work, I am forced to conclude it won't work in this country for one reason, and one reason alone, and I am happy to share my opinion on this below.
The problem, as I see it, is not so much the lack of money in NZ, and our tiny population, but a lack of motivation by people with money but not quite the ability to foot it with the very best drivers that dominate any "level playing field" motor racing in NZ,including my own responsibility, Ssangyong Actyon Sport Racing. Allow me to elaborate, I know for a fact that we, SRS, will lose at least 3 or more, of our very good ute competitors at the end of this season because they can't stand being beaten by someone in identical machinery. They will either drop out of motor racing for ever, or move on two a category were either money or engineering ability can make a difference, or so they hope. My point being, that even in such a low cost category, competitors drift away if they can't see themselves getting at or near the sharp end. Lets just say, as Martin Collins dared to suppose, that we allowed 2 and 4 door Touring cars within certain defined criteria, e.g.. maximum wheel sizes, minimum weight, minimum cockpit/glasshouse size, no ABS, and only normally aspirated engines etc, we might be very surprised what comes out of the 'woodwork', so to speak. Why? because those people with money and some ability, fancy their chances a lot better if they could put in the engine and gearbox with the best power to weight performance etc, just as many do with their $300K plus Muscle Cars at this present moment. Re-powering an ST or TLX car with pretty much whatever you want will appeal to a great deal of people, so buying a donor race ready ST or TLX car for not much more than a $100K, and re-powering it with any normally aspirated engine, that will/must run on 98 octane pump gas, will have very real appeal to a far greater competitor base than owning and running a tightly controlled ST car. You only have to go back in time to see the appeal of the hugely diverse range of cars and engines that the NZ Saloon Car Championship had it in its hey-day before the MSNZ declared in 1983/84 that Group A would become the Premier Saloon/Touring Car Championship. When that all collapsed [because of the lack of competitors] Tranzam took off, but again collapsed in 2003 and suddenly MSNZ minimum decided it would be a good idea to take over Greg Lancaster's Transam Lights, which had by then morphed into NZV8's, as the way forward, the rest is history. |
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27 Feb 2016, 02:42 (Ref:3618159) | #431 | |||
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28 Feb 2016, 03:48 (Ref:3618342) | #432 | ||
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Spot on Mark. The last paragraph basically says a lot. "Hugely diverse range of cars and engines"...
All you needed to add was "and several different classes". |
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I always did march to a different drumbeat - Peter Brock |
28 Feb 2016, 23:36 (Ref:3618523) | #433 | |
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Agreed, several different class's but all cars must be V8's and based on 2 or 4 saloon car's capable of seating 4 adults in road trim.
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28 Feb 2016, 23:47 (Ref:3618526) | #434 | ||
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Could we not include 6's, 10's and 12's? That would make it really interesting...
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Nice one, Centurion! |
29 Feb 2016, 08:04 (Ref:3618575) | #435 | |
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Hi GB, I am not suggesting Formula Libre, on the contrary, what I am suggesting is that there is a lot of V8 Saloon cars that have no other place to run but in GT event's with no possibility of TV etc, that would probably jump at the chance to be part of a premier category. I also believe that some of the modified ST's and TLX cars would also be keen to race if they were made to feel welcome.
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29 Feb 2016, 19:51 (Ref:3618822) | #436 | ||
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Agree with GB. Formula Libre is effectively 'Free Formula' and donkeys years ago was a mix of various oddball cars where there were insufficient entries to form a class, and also predated historic single seaters.
Saloons with either 6/8/10/12 cylinder engines could lead to some epic David vs Goliath battles, which is what most up us enjoy and what is missing from today's racing. Maybe that is just one major ingredient that is missing from most of today's one class racing - a genuine crowd pleaser. |
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I always did march to a different drumbeat - Peter Brock |
29 Feb 2016, 20:36 (Ref:3618844) | #437 | |||
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Nice one, Centurion! |
1 Mar 2016, 08:20 (Ref:3618940) | #438 | ||
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But hey nobody is stopping you getting other like minded people together, just get off your keyboard and start organising things on the ground, which is precisely what I and other similar like minded people will do over the next few months. I am reminded of the old proverb "if at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again" |
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1 Mar 2016, 09:22 (Ref:3618956) | #439 | ||
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Well let's hope someone can find a winning formula
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1 Mar 2016, 23:39 (Ref:3619143) | #440 | |||
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There are already "open formula" "saloon" classes in both the North & South Islands so don't quash those to meet the NZTC needs. The key here is to do something to get cars out of sheds, do something to boost the overall number of competitors at a meeting. Taking (e.g.) 10 cars from NZGT and adding them to the NZTC field doesn't realistically achieve anything. |
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9 Mar 2016, 16:09 (Ref:3621587) | #441 | ||
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I was not a fan of the spec engine in V8ST. I thought it would contribute to killing interest in time and it did. Ultimately what makes motorsport interesting to people is competition in all things. Spectators want to see the limits pushed in all areas. Once a series is simply all about every competitor buying the same exact part off the shelf with no development room for anything it kills the interest for the spectator and the competitor. I think if I was a person that spent hundreds of thousands or millions on the same car as everyone else with the same engine, same tires and same parts I'd probably get bored and if I had to watch that year in year out, I'd get bored too and I have. I never understood why the socialist mindset took over motorsport as it was always very capitalist and competition oriented. Competition is nothing to be scared of. |
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9 Mar 2016, 16:32 (Ref:3621601) | #442 | ||
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Obviously there will be some rules or framework that has to exist. But have one touring car class and that is it. |
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9 Mar 2016, 20:00 (Ref:3621650) | #443 | ||
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So the class is sorted, TLX and ST with any engine/trans combo. Someone just needs to write a couple of rules as in this country we don't like too many of those.
Next, tracks need to put in TV spec CCTV cameras all around the track and pits. It seems unlikely we will ever see the huge crowds back at anything but the biggest events in this country so the tracks could sell the rights to watch the CCTV footage on any weekend. You could watch a corner, a car or the pits if thats what you are into. All of this from the comfort of your couch. |
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9 Mar 2016, 20:48 (Ref:3621665) | #444 | |||
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They all had classes and generally, it was by engine capacity - and guess what? The racing was fantastic (not too sure about Brooklands, but at least the crowds were huge!) as we got the occasional David v Goliath battles, and cars that were fantastically economical on fuel able to make up ground as the giants made their fuel stops. Multiple classes on different grids as you are describing is not the same thing at all. It is what we have now anyway and what has effectively killed the spectator interest. It certainly killed mine. A Tier 1 meeting not so long ago at Taupo, with just 67 cars entered was going to attract the spectators, when a gentlemanly 'after you Claude' classic meeting had over 200 cars? No contest. Some spectators from the former migrated to the latter during the day as one or two came to chat and tell me so! Classic and historic motorsport might seem to you to be 'after you Claude', but it isn't dodgem car racing either, with drivers showing due respect to other cars, which sadly, is what has marked down some of the one class racing. Look at the horrendous panel damage in the Aussie V8s, week after week, most of it caused, not by a driver simply going too fast, but a driver trying to barge his way through. When I grew up we had a specific term for that. Stock car racing. |
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10 Mar 2016, 00:21 (Ref:3621732) | #445 | ||
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Sure some of the guys in historics have a go but like I said there is a difference between that world and one oriented towards professional and competitive racing. If as a driver I was racing in a historic car in a historic race, my mentally would be different from running in a series like TRS. I have seen tons of multi class in one field racing over time and in the professional competitive world I think it's a complete dud and snoozer. If people want to compete for a participation trophy or have to get squirreled away into a class to protect their ego, there are tons of venues for that. I compete in another very different very competitive sport and we also suffer at times from diluting the field with a bazillion classes and rankings. I find it extremely frustrating as a competitor. Not only is motorsport ruined with this but other sports as well. I've been to a number of Canterbury Car Club race days and they lump a bunch of different cars into a couple of classes that all run their own race. The single seaters for instance I saw everything from Formula Holden and Atlantics running with Formula Ford and everyone seemed fine with it. Even at a club level it's not necessarily to butcher a field with classes. For a competitive, interesting touring car class I would devise a simple rule set and let it rip. Banish words and phrases like "level playing field", "control parts", "spec parts", etc. |
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Wolverines! |
10 Mar 2016, 00:36 (Ref:3621734) | #446 | |
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Add the words "Parity" and "Franchise" to your list and you will clear a number of other issues out of the way too.
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10 Mar 2016, 00:54 (Ref:3621737) | #447 | ||
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TV helped motorsport a lot at one point and drove a lot of income into the sport. The world has changed now, TV is dying and evolving. I think motorsport has been a little behind the curve with new technology and media. Starting afresh I'd forget TV packages and all of that. I'd focus on building an exciting motor racing series that people eagerly want to see and something they would be willing to pay to see in person. For media you can reach people quicker with social media and things like youtube. I'd cut in short 1 to 2 minute clips here and there on your media sites to tempt and tease more interest from people. I would never do live TV or any costly TV deals until the tracks are rammed with people. Same with having live streaming online. If I can sit on my butt and watch it all live there is not a lot of incentive to get out and get involved or see it myself. |
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Wolverines! |
10 Mar 2016, 01:02 (Ref:3621739) | #448 | ||
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Franchises have worked in some cases and it all depends on the situation. |
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Wolverines! |
8 Apr 2016, 02:09 (Ref:3631096) | #449 | |
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Is there any V8 NZTC racing coming up anytime soon??
One would think not... I mean its a week out & there has been f all in any media about anything. Hell not even a post on here for nearly a month! Perhaps this thing really has died, perhaps that's why when the Toyota 86's were on TV recently, they referred to themselves as NZ's premier saloon category... |
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8 Apr 2016, 02:35 (Ref:3631102) | #450 | ||
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I thought the season finished ages ago.
But no! It would seem there is an event on at Pukekohe next weekend! Has anyone actually entered? |
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Nice one, Centurion! |
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