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15 Jan 2020, 07:42 (Ref:3951691) | #26 | ||
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If it is sold to the fans as the age old series just with a different set of regs, the majority of fans will just blindly buy it |
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15 Jan 2020, 08:42 (Ref:3951697) | #27 | ||
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TCR crowds were small last year
but they had minimal promotion or publicity and were only shown on SBS with shoe string budget This year, with s5000 and TCM and other support classes, 4 hour live coverage on ch7, with a lot of promotion, it just might do a "world series cricket" The crowd for WSC were terrible to begin with, sell out crowds after a year or so. |
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15 Jan 2020, 09:02 (Ref:3951698) | #28 | ||
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15 Jan 2020, 09:24 (Ref:3951699) | #29 | ||
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Were they referring to the type of cars being raced, or the fanfare and crowd size?
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.......just waiting for ANTON DePASQUALE to chalk up his first V8SC Championship! |
15 Jan 2020, 10:33 (Ref:3951708) | #30 | ||
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Quote:
As Tiff Needel says, "The Ford Sierra touring car is not a pukka racer. The bodyshell is full of holes. A touring car is a compromise. It's a road car made into a racer. It doesn't have the rigidity of a pukka racer, it rolls in the corners. What results is a lot of arm twirling and a lot of fun.” Link: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iJl0-daCCHs If you wanted to build a race car from scratch you don't give it four doors and a roof and even a boot (!)... You'd start by putting the engine on the floor in the middle as a structural component of the vehicle, a lightweight carbon monocoque to hold the driver who is also sitting on the floor, inboard suspension etc... Hey presto you have your formula car or LMP car. Touring cars are not proper race cars, so why shouldn't they reflect the car you drive? Whether it's 1989 and the car you drive to work is a Nissan Skyline GTS coupe or Ford Sapphire Cosworth, or it's 2020 and the car you drive to work is a Golf GTI or Alfa Romeo Giulietta Veloce. That's doesn't mean Supercars should adopt TCR. There is an open opportunity for Supercars to race cars *based* on the Alfa Giulia Quadrifolgio, BMW M3, Mercedes C63 AMG, Jaguar XE R and so on... That's the modern market for four door rear drive performance cars, so that's the segment Supercars needs to target if they want to race those kinds of touring cars. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 15 Jan 2020 at 10:47. |
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15 Jan 2020, 11:39 (Ref:3951726) | #31 | |
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A point I have raised before, a hybrid car will cost far far more to build and run than either a straight IC car or full BEV and the latter would be by far the cheapest. What a BEV will do will put engine builders out of business.
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15 Jan 2020, 12:29 (Ref:3951745) | #32 | |||
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TCR has... Up and coming ace Jason Bargwanna... |
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15 Jan 2020, 17:04 (Ref:3951802) | #33 | ||
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as I have said MANY times Supercars are a 'sports sedan'
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I reserve the right to arm bears |
15 Jan 2020, 18:19 (Ref:3951813) | #34 | |
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The automotive landscape has changed (move to SUV's and smaller cars instead of larger sedans) and will change in the coming years (move to electric powered cars).
If the series wants to be road relevant - in other words involvement of manufacturers or importers - it has to follow the automotive landscape. If it can survive without this involvement - technical but especially money wise - they could keep the current cars and big engines, or a similar but cheaper formula like TransAm. In the last case it's questionable on the long term if sponsors want to be involved. Large companies want - or are forced by the public - to spend their money on a "green" way. |
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15 Jan 2020, 20:53 (Ref:3951844) | #35 | |
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... is it not feasible to switch back to a generic ruleset such as Improved Production? The you can ‘run what ya brung’
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I want you to go back out on that track.... and hit the pace car |
15 Jan 2020, 21:24 (Ref:3951847) | #36 | ||
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Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly." |
15 Jan 2020, 22:32 (Ref:3951856) | #37 | ||
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IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM! |
16 Jan 2020, 00:59 (Ref:3951867) | #38 | ||
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The fans watched the stars in the new race and didn’t care that the original 35-year old race died off, similarly with World Series Cricket, the stars win out. |
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16 Jan 2020, 01:11 (Ref:3951868) | #39 | |||
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It is the usual thing, the original intent gets lost by lobbying for one little thing here and one little thing there... Death of a thousand paper cuts. |
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16 Jan 2020, 02:02 (Ref:3951870) | #40 | ||
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I reserve the right to arm bears |
16 Jan 2020, 02:15 (Ref:3951871) | #41 | ||
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"Your biggest auto race may one day become a Camaro playground", Chris Economaki, Bathurst 1979 |
16 Jan 2020, 02:17 (Ref:3951872) | #42 | ||
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I think I know which ones you are talking about ;-) Would get around the problem of having to run current body shapes however and end the reliance on manufacturers. Maybe a new ruleset based on IP which winds back the freedoms on suspension components / geometry, allows minimal aero and body mods, and puts an age limit on cars to keep it relevant (i.e. a 6 year rolling window). Almost sounds like Group C / Group A hybrid Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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I want you to go back out on that track.... and hit the pace car |
16 Jan 2020, 04:04 (Ref:3951877) | #43 | ||
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TCR started with something like that and now you have 1 car nobody can buy and 2 that are not racing with production engines, and nobody uses their production gearbox.
So you see how the death of a thousand paper cuts start? One little freedom here, one there... |
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16 Jan 2020, 22:04 (Ref:3952002) | #44 | ||||||
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Firstly, my apologies that I've done a fair bit of multi-quoting -have had a largely internet-free (!!!!) break so catching up.
Think of crystal ball thread re cars that aren't due to appear for a couple of years can be quite interesting and no doubt will move around a fair bit this year and next. Quote:
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Can sometimes be the case Johno although I don't thing that Aussies (yet) are embracing TCR - much smaller crowds and all that. It's been a funny old world for some time where people outside of Oz have appreciated and loved Supercars much more than some inside Oz. |
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
16 Jan 2020, 22:10 (Ref:3952004) | #45 | |||
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I think that Supercars may well have a 3-5 year plan as the CEO has mentioned a number of things over time indicating that they are working to a timeline etc - certainly the plans for the 2022 car are well underway from what he's said. We saw with the announcement to drop Commodore from the market last year that sometimes, multi-year plans get thrown out the window anyway. On top of all that, any 5 year plan would be shared with the shareholders and those investing time/money, rather than with the world outside (us). |
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
16 Jan 2020, 22:13 (Ref:3952006) | #46 | |||
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
16 Jan 2020, 22:19 (Ref:3952010) | #47 | ||
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The scenario above was that if the “Supercars Championship” ended one season with Gen2 then started the next season at Adelaide with TCR cars, as we did with Group C to Group A, then later Group A to V8s. |
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16 Jan 2020, 22:21 (Ref:3952012) | #48 | |||
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Procar went down a similar path but it didn't work out for them but in those days, Supercars was on FTA on a rival network. The viewing landscape is very different now but then, the demographic that is supposedly fired up about TCR (younger demographic) tends to go for streaming for sport so maybe the FTA thing isn't that big a deal for them? IMHO, more than the cost blowout on COTF, more than any parity debate, more than manufacturers coming or going, the biggest BY FAR mistake made by Supercars in recent years was the decision to go with payTV almost exclusively - took something that was a "must watch" habit and made it a "maybe" or even "can't watch" - so very, very dumb and short-sighted. Thank you James Warburton and the board members at the time. |
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
16 Jan 2020, 22:25 (Ref:3952013) | #49 | ||
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In your opinion - however the FIA system (including Motorsport Australia) calls them a "Touring Car".
As mentioned by someone else in another thread, Motorsport Australia lists consider both "sports sedans" and supercars to be "Touring Cars". Both are still a Touring Car. |
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
16 Jan 2020, 22:30 (Ref:3952014) | #50 | |||
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My reference to Supertouring was primarily in relation to Bathurst - the change was made to the type of cars running in the event from one year to the next and the fans stayed away from the track and their TVs. Long time ago now and IF it were to happen in the next few years, maybe it could work this time. |
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
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