Bell's Banter 2022

[bauble]

Are we wandering in to politics, here? By God we are!

If your country is invaded by an enemy, it makes sense to put aside differences and stand together to fight the invader, in this case Covid. What do we do today? Bicker over tactics, and expect nothing in life to change. I doubt if any past leader could have done any better than the current lot, It is difficult to fight a domestic war at the same time as an invasion.
We are a sorry excuse for a Nation.

[Peter Mallett]

Watching the TV I see a young woman from Love Island has made a lot of money and thinks anyone can do it. She has been "piled on" for saying this. Personally I think she has a point since without ambition we would never improve. Where she misses the point is that success should not always be measured in terms of money. Having a family and a nice home could be seen as success. Likewise enjoying your job could be seen as success. But in this world of instant gratification, all people see is money and then become jealous of those who have become rich. It's fair to say that reality TV is as much to blame but that is really just a new revenue stream for those who want to become "stars".

[VIVA GT]

Reality TV has created a new monster. On the Who wants to be a successful musician? type of shows they all appear to want to win, but only because that should make them rich & famous. Unfortunately The Apprentice seems to be attracting the same sort of contestants (not that I watch any of these types of show anymore).

[The Fat Clerk]

We are a sorry excuse for a Nation.[/QUOTE]

Indeed we are

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Reality TV has created a new monster. On the Who wants to be a successful musician? type of shows they all appear to want to win, but only because that should make them rich & famous. Unfortunately The Apprentice seems to be attracting the same sort of contestants (not that I watch any of these types of show anymore).

I do get a lot of sponsorship requests/applications to join the team with no money, along the lines of "if you don't pay for my hobby I'll have to give up on my dream." The kid normally has no talent, no application, but has watched lots of "Karaoke Star" TV shows.

Sorry chum, this is real life. We all have to accept dreams are just that. Unfortunately the Karaoke Stars just encourage not working for your dream, expecting someone else to fund it.

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[midgetman]

PS. Sorry, I've had a long hard day in the rain and now a couple of pints so I *may* be a bit ranty

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[Lancsbreaker]

No apology needed

[andy97]

Originally Posted by midgetman

PS. Sorry, I've had a long hard day in the rain and now a couple of pints so I *may* be a bit ranty

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I don’t have that excuse!

[rbs]

Its very easy to critisise BoJo but jut t imagine thhe mess if Corbyn & Abbott had been successful. Its bad enough now with Mr. Hindsight and and his side kick.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by rbs

Its very easy to critisise BoJo but jut t imagine thhe mess if Corbyn & Abbott had been successful. Its bad enough now with Mr. Hindsight and and his side kick.

That's not fair. I'm no Corbyn lover but "cometh the hour, cometh the man." Who knows what could have happened? We can't indulge in "whataboutery"

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[andy97]

Originally Posted by rbs

Its very easy to critisise BoJo but jut t imagine thhe mess if Corbyn & Abbott had been successful. Its bad enough now with Mr. Hindsight and and his side kick.

It is not about what might have been, it is about what we have, and I think that the electorate are entitled to a professional, committed, consistent, well briefed and analytical performance from the leadership.
I am glad I am not still in the military relying on the current crop of “career politicians” to make strategic security and deployment decisions.
I do know someone who worked with BoJo when he was Foreign Secretary and who described him as shambolic, rude to foreign dignitaries (inc the Japanese who we were courting for post Brexit, “global Britain” support) and disinterested in reading his briefs.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by andy97

It is not about what might have been, it is about what we have, and I think that the electorate are entitled to a professional, committed, consistent, well briefed and analytical performance from the leadership.
I am glad I am not still in the military relying on the current crop of “career politicians” to make strategic security and deployment decisions.
I do know someone who worked with BoJo when he was Foreign Secretary and who described him as shambolic, rude to foreign dignitaries (inc the Japanese who we were courting for post Brexit, “global Britain” support) and disinterested in reading his briefs.

I'm really glad that you brought this up, Andy, because whilst the clown was actually FO, the Beeb ran a fly-on-the-wall documentary on him and what you say came across loud and clear. He didn't pay any attention to briefings even when given verbally - I think that by that time his civil servant advisers had given up trying to get him to read his briefs - and he used to go completely off the official line during meetings with foreign dignitaries.

I don't know why anyone was surprised when he started talking about his visit to Peppa Pig World to the CBI recently; he not a serious politician, just a feature writer for newspapers and journals. What should one expect from someone that read Classics at university?

Interestingly enough, one of my sons actually joined the Conservatives so that he could vote for him to become leader. He now bitterly regrets that and quickly cancelled his membership.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I'm really glad that you brought this up, Andy, because whilst the clown was actually FO, the Beeb ran a fly-on-the-wall documentary on him and what you say came across loud and clear. He didn't pay any attention to briefings even when given verbally - I think that by that time his civil servant advisers had given up trying to get him to read his briefs - and he used to go completely off the official line during meetings with foreign dignitaries.

I don't know why anyone was surprised when he started talking about his visit to Peppa Pig World to the CBI recently; he not a serious politician, just a feature writer for newspapers and journals. What should one expect from someone that read Classics at university?

Interestingly enough, one of my sons actually joined the Conservatives so that he could vote for him to become leader. He now bitterly regrets that and quickly cancelled his membership.

Have no idea about the Classics and I didn’t see the documentary but the behaviour exactly as I said.

Supposedly, pre Brexit referendum, Boris wrote two article for the Spectator, one pro Brexit, and one pro Remain; he only published the pro Brexit one when he had worked out which way the wing was blowing.

[Mike Harte]

Hopefully not annoying our Mods by discussing political matters here, but would like to add that he is not a man of true conviction. I remember when he was MP for Uxbridge and Heathrow was trying to get permission to build the third runway. He told his constituents and the media that he felt so strongly that it should not happen, reflecting the view of many from that area, and that he would stand in front of the bulldozers to stop work going on.

And what happened when the vote took place in Parliament? He suddenly found that he needed to attend an unscheduled meeting in the Middle East that meant that he was not able be in the House to vote against it going ahead. He was back in the UK the very next day!

[terence]

Name one of his troop who have kept to the words they spewed out in order to get their dream job.??

[E.B]

Originally Posted by terence

Name one of his troop who have kept to the words they spewed out in order to get their dream job.??

As we say down here, you can always tell when a politician is lying.... whenever he / she move their lips.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by andy97

I think that the electorate are entitled to a professional, committed, consistent, well briefed and analytical performance from the leadership.

So true, thank you!!
I remember when we were targeted by the best headhunters of the place, their requirements, questions, analysis and so on. All that for a General Sales manager job. It was great "fun" when Sarko was elected to compare his profile to a reps' one… What serious compaby cold rent people like that? Honestly? And they have to manage millions of people and cope with hundreds of competitors.

Are we serious enough when voting? I think we should have a kind of permit of voting.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

So true, thank you!!
I remember when we were targeted by the best headhunters of the place, their requirements, questions, analysis and so on. All that for a General Sales manager job. It was great "fun" when Sarko was elected to compare his profile to a reps' one… What serious compaby cold rent people like that? Honestly? And they have to manage millions of people and cope with hundreds of competitors.

Are we serious enough when voting? I think we should have a kind of permit of voting.

Agreed, Gerard. I often wonder how our various leaders would get on in the kind of selection, training and annual performance assessment process I went through as a Naval officer!
And I should have added “honest and with integrity” to this list of attributes we have a right to expect.

[bauble]

Can anybody name a better method of organising a countries affairs?

A Presidential style like like America, Kenya, Belarus, or Russia.

A King like Saudi Arabia.

Whatever system you choose you will always get the power seekers ending up imn charge, because no normal person would want the job.

I reckon we do better than most, and Boris is no better/worse than Sir Tony Blair,

[andy97]

Originally Posted by bauble

Can anybody name a better method of organising a countries affairs?

A Presidential style like like America, Kenya, Belarus, or Russia.

A King like Saudi Arabia.

Whatever system you choose you will always get the power seekers ending up imn charge, because no normal person would want the job.

I reckon we do better than most, and Boris is no better/worse than Sir Tony Blair,

Nothing is perfect, Bauble, and the system we have is probably less bad than the others you mention, but its the choice of individuals that is depressing.
Many “career politicians” who read PPE at Oxbridge etc and have ever been in the real world.
I voted for a local independent candidate last time!

[bauble]

On our fridge door is a quote from the TV series Minder.
Arthur is bemoaning a failed insurance scam, Terry says

"Well it was your gang."

Arthur reples;

"It wasn't a gang it was a Loose collection of inadequate individuals.

Can you think of a better description of any post war cabinet?

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by bauble

Can anybody name a better method of organising a countries affairs?



A Presidential style like like America, Kenya, Belarus, or Russia.



A King like Saudi Arabia.



Whatever system you choose you will always get the power seekers ending up imn charge, because no normal person would want the job.



I reckon we do better than most, and Boris is no better/worse than Sir Tony Blair,

You're right. What is wrong isn't so much the system, it's the quality of the people putting themselves forward for the job.

Those who want a decent career and earn a lot of money stick to industry, those who want a rather poorly paid job (in terms of CEOs etc of large PLCs) but with a lot of TV air time then go into politics. With the result that the world-class players go into industry and the second rate ones who couldn't run a whelk stall run the country. Where in turn they are run rings round by the power brokers in industry.

Once in politics, because the public demand their political representatives work 24/7, MPs create work for themselves so they look busy and get said air time. I have no problem with "second jobs" because it keeps them in the real world and away from governing for the sake of it.

This is a worldwide problem, across all party political divides.

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[grantp]

One of the clearest attributes of a politician who can be presented as being consistently successful is the ability to absorb some sort of briefing - written, visual or verbal - well enough (for a short period of time) to appear to be knowledgable in interviews after some sort of activity lack a press conference or a factory visit or a ribbon-cutting for a new road in an area the visiting political representative did not know existed until their cavalcade pulled up and will instantly forget about within hours of their departure.

This is a requirement because, once on the "Ministerial" list, they are likely to change jobs frequently and take to the new office "seamlessly". Often working in areas of which they have no useful level of prior knowledge.

More dangerous might be "ministers" WITH detailed knowledge of certain areas of politics and diplomacy and an embedded opinion about how "correct" thier approach to resolving "problems" would be.

It is an imperfect system. Looking around the world I cannot think of anywhere that might offer the perfect system and have never read any books or article that suggests such a system exists.

So we have to live with the imperfections and try to mitigate, over time via elections, just how bad the situation becomes.

When Boris hit the top of the pile it was noticeable how many of his previous "senior" colleagues legged it as soon as they had a better-paid engagement to go to. Perhaps that was just the Boris factor. Or did they also have some inkling of the political and economic detritus and some potential pandemic risk on the horizon?

Even Alexander's own brother seemed less than impressed.

Then again, if we consider bauble's "Minder" observation, maybe a "collection of inadequate individuals" is what we might normally come to expect in both politics and, not infrequently, many businesses and organisations in general that occupy positions of influence over the mass of people collected together (loosely) and labelled as a "country".

[grantp]

I agree with Max - up to a point.

As in everything in life I think one may need to subdivide the grouping in a number of ways.

Industry (or politics, or medicine, or sport. In fact any aspect of human endeavor) requires different attributes from the people involved at different times of development.

The entrepreneur with the vision to start a business (especially a "serial entrepreneur") may be perfect for establishing a new operation and dreadful at masterminding it once established.

Indeed at the level, before the entrepreneur is involved the person who comes up with a new and potentially marketable product or idea also has to be someone who can move on to successfully exploit their "baby" by choosing the "right" development entrepreneur and being able to agree on an arrangement with that person that makes the development of the concept viable and profitable (in some way) for both parties.

From my observations over the years such successes seem often to occur purely by chance. So not totally different to politics really ...

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by grantp

I agree with Max - up to a point.

.
...

Sorry Grant, if you don't agree with me 100% aren't you supposed to issue death threats and blame Michael Massi?

Or have I been reading Twitter too long?

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