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31 Jul 2007, 20:57 (Ref:1977628) | #51 | |||
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31 Jul 2007, 21:33 (Ref:1977658) | #52 | ||
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If RB do withdraw their support of Speed then I dont see him getting much else in the way of rides, he would need money for Champcars surely?
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31 Jul 2007, 22:00 (Ref:1977674) | #53 | |||
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31 Jul 2007, 22:07 (Ref:1977679) | #54 | |||
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Last edited by Bluewolf; 31 Jul 2007 at 22:17. |
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31 Jul 2007, 23:15 (Ref:1977719) | #55 | ||
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I dont know Speed well enough, but i think Liuzzi is a very talented driver without the right attitude. He seems to focus to much on other things beside his job. Vettel on the other side is known for jogging around the race track every morning at 7am back in FBMW.
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31 Jul 2007, 23:51 (Ref:1977735) | #56 | |||
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That is all they need is it? |
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1 Aug 2007, 05:52 (Ref:1977846) | #57 | ||
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well, it always seemed a particularly unhappy marriage of speed / liuzzi and STR - the team doesnt have the funds for the young guys to really thrash the car, and the team doesnt have the knowhow for the young guys to show their potential (which incidentally. I dont think speed or liuzzi are lacking pace, but pace is nothing on its own in modern F1. Being faultless is expected to be standard from modern drivers, and then how much pace they can sustain after that separates the better drivers from the pack. So, neither parties are benefitting from the arrangement, so time for a change.
Vettel i think will fit in much better, because he has a systematic, methodical approach (he reminds me a little of alonso at minardi), who makes very few mistakes from my impressions of him. Neither Speed or Liuzzi get the most out of a trailing team like STR, they're just the wrong drivers to have in that team. But having said that, the same could have been said of massa a few seasons back as well........ |
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1 Aug 2007, 07:18 (Ref:1977885) | #58 | |
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What STR need is Stepney, or someone like Stepney. They seem to have all the right ingredients but lack the top class race engineering to get it all to work.
For Vettel I think it is a bad career move. Test driver at BMW with their money and facilities is far better than race driver at STR with little money and dodgy management. I hope Speed stays in F1 as a test driver for a better team (or does GP2). This would position him to replace one of the large number of current F1 drivers who are retiring over the next 1 to 3 years. Also it looks like Red Bull made a big mistake in having two F1 teams. If they had put all their talent and resources into just RBR they would probably be doing better. STR has turned out just to be a distraction from the main event. |
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1 Aug 2007, 07:40 (Ref:1977904) | #59 | ||
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from what we know of Liuzzi's and Speeds personalities you can immediately see they seem a little immature, sulky even, and are unlikely to get the best out of a large adult organisation.
Vettel and Bourdais, looking at their approaches to motorsport, the dedication they both show as well as their pace, it looks like a far more formidable team and one that will help get the team heading the right way. You have to wonder why Tost was so angry with Speed. Yes he's a prat, but what sort of pressure is Tost under that made him snap? If he's got targets that aren't being achieved by Red Bull, then what implications does that have on the team and him? |
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1 Aug 2007, 08:00 (Ref:1977926) | #60 | |||
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1 Aug 2007, 11:03 (Ref:1978099) | #61 | ||
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Ammermuller and Dornboos are both officialy test drivers, although they are obviously busy with different things these days!
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1 Aug 2007, 12:05 (Ref:1978154) | #62 | ||
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Well right now i believe Dornboos is obviously occupied with Champ Cars in the US and Ammermuller has a broken wrist or something. Previously they had both on call though, and in the most recent test they had another one of their development drivers in for the first and final day.
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1 Aug 2007, 12:38 (Ref:1978192) | #63 | ||
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Yep. Sebastien Buemi. Plus they've had a couple of different drivers doing the street demos - Filip Albuquerque was one, I believe
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1 Aug 2007, 14:18 (Ref:1978269) | #64 | ||
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Buemi looks like quite a good prospect long-term, as does Ammermuller if he recovers fully. In some ways Vettel has jumped the queue through his BMW involvment; he looks a better talent than Speed or Liuzzi, but will STR's management give him the chance to prove it.
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1 Aug 2007, 17:22 (Ref:1978396) | #65 | |
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Sad, in a way, to see Speed go. Can't say I rated him and I found tedius the constant "battle against bad health throughout career" story that alone seemed to justify his existence in F1, but I thought him a better bet than Liuzzi. Marginally.
Vitantonio survives then and can now continue to fund his dreadful fashion tastes to excess. So Vettel is in then. A good choice. I don't expect him to blow away Liuzzi immediately like most, but I think he will assert himself by seasons end as the much stronger driver. It adds a bit of interest to proceedings anyways. However, regular points? Doubt it. STR have no idea how their car works! |
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1 Aug 2007, 19:34 (Ref:1978506) | #66 | |
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Toro Rosso are rubbish and a waste of a good space in F1 for a team that doesn't try to live off the coattails of another team, and fails completely in doing so.
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1 Aug 2007, 20:13 (Ref:1978544) | #67 | ||
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Sorry guys I havent read the whole thread, but what is the point of Vettel joining Toro Rosso? They are not exactly going to make him look good are they....especially in the year of Lewis Hamilton at McLaren who he will undoubtedly be compared to. Maybe he has a contract upgrading to a full BMW or Red Bull drive at some point.
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1 Aug 2007, 21:04 (Ref:1978580) | #68 | |||
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1 Aug 2007, 21:10 (Ref:1978585) | #69 | ||
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i think the problem at str lies in that they have a highly advanced car designed by one the greatest designers ever, and a very good engine, but lack the knowledge and resources to deploy it properly.
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1 Aug 2007, 21:22 (Ref:1978594) | #70 | ||
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Why otherwise would Super Aguri be so discreet about the extent to which their car is a 2006 Honda? It's hard to like or support a team when such things are not made clear. It's not good for the sport to have no clear consensus itself on how the rules stand. The whole Toro Rosso thing looks particularly messy because we don't know to what extent exactly these teams are operating as one. In theory, all teams should have to compete each other and should not share information, but we know that to some extent Red Bull and Toro Rosso function as one team..perhaps in all the ways that suit Red Bull. For example they may give each other detailed technical information about their findings in a test session, but at what point do they no longer share? Do they share strategy information? It seems that Red Bull pulls the strings in this relationship between its own proper team and Toro Rosso, so we end up with a weakened team being partly controlled by another. Toro Rosso is in this respect a waste of space, because another completely independent team could instead be operating off its own back. I repeat though, we, the general spectating public, still don't know to what extent these teams are one. Such confusion should not exist. |
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1 Aug 2007, 21:27 (Ref:1978601) | #71 | ||
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There is nothing wrong with consensual information sharing. That is a different thing. It is the use of the information that is relevant.
Perhaps it is all these unknowns that has spurred the push for customer cars? If you let them happen, then the mystery disappears. |
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1 Aug 2007, 21:57 (Ref:1978618) | #72 | |||
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1 Aug 2007, 22:08 (Ref:1978623) | #73 | ||
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Well, I mean, for instance, teams working together with tyre companies. Two teams can choose to share each other's information in this regard if they want, but obviously if this happened against the will then it would be wrong.
Well, there has to be pragmatism involved in regulation making. If you want a reasonable attempt at fair ones, that is. |
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1 Aug 2007, 22:16 (Ref:1978632) | #74 | |||
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from BMW's perspective, I'm sure its more about getting track time in a racing environment, rather than testing. They know he's good, to BMW they are just preparing Vittel. |
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1 Aug 2007, 23:06 (Ref:1978650) | #75 | ||
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I agree with you, andy_b. As I wondered earlier about the purpose of this, it looks more to me like Vettel will get race experience which will benefit him immensely as he goes forward with BMW.
I think of him as being on loan - like a football club will do with a promising youngster: loan him out to a Gillingham or some such to get some game experience rather than have him sit. I think BMW is doing the same here. So that brings us to the who will stay and who will go at BMW in 2008? |
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