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24 Oct 2006, 17:46 (Ref:1747888) | #151 | ||
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In F1 people (and Renault ) say Ferrari has a big influence on FIA (Ferrari International Assistance). Maybe Audi has that influence on ACO (Audi Controlled Organisation). |
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24 Oct 2006, 18:02 (Ref:1747908) | #152 | ||
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Which leads nicely on to Phil Bennett's piece on DSC! |
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24 Oct 2006, 18:26 (Ref:1747929) | #153 | ||
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To go back to the comparison of petrol and diesel Beemers, I don't think it's that much off-topic.
I think the point here is that in 'real life' diesels are heavier and slower than their petrol counterparts but have better economy. Surely the ACO should frame their rules to reflect this natural state rather than trying to show that the diesel is a viable performance engine. So give them the same size tanks, but make them run on pump fuel and reduce their engine capacity, or whatever it takes to make them slower. They could then win by being more economical, which would probably give the manufacturers even better publicity. Failing that, they should be made to tow caravans! |
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24 Oct 2006, 18:45 (Ref:1747947) | #154 | ||
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By 2008 we should see greater petrol/diesel equivallence, customer R10's/Peugeots, and maybe new factory competitors (who will eventually make customer chassis available). |
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24 Oct 2006, 18:57 (Ref:1747960) | #155 | ||
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We are back to the same old story, the manufacturers are coming back to the LMP classes and those 1 or 2 factory teams are going to dominate. It doesent matter if Audi use a diesel or a petrol engine, I suspect they would do just as well with a petrol engine as they would with a diesel but the diesel suits their needs in terms of selling more diesel turbo road cars and added to that they know they can make a diesel powered car quick enough to win Le Mans and set a few records whilst they are at it.
I do feel sorry for the privateer teams but it is the same in every category of motorsport that is a open formula, the manufacturer backed teams almost always end up on top. Still, Im hopeful for Le Mans next year, I really think that Zytek will give the Audis and Peugoets something to worry about providing Zytek get 2 entries with 1 car at least having a professional driving line up. Zytek have a new car in the pipe line for 2007 and I think they will be very competitve. Other than Zytek however who are going to challenge the factory teams? Pescarolo maybe, providing the new car is up to scratch. Sportscar racing is slowly getting back to how it was back in 2001-2002 with lots of factory teams and competitve privateers in all classes. Long may it continue! |
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24 Oct 2006, 19:35 (Ref:1748005) | #156 | ||
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Factory competition brings many benefits to the series and it's privateers, not least media and fan attention. If the privateer ranks are large enough, teams can have great racing between themselves, even if the factories drive off into the distance (which I don't believe will happen). Already we are seeing the benefits of Peugeots arrival, this months Evo magazines lead story is about the 908, while the 206 Cup is mentioned elsewere. Both articles also namecheck the Le Mans Series. In recent years, other than a small mention about Audi, the focus has always been on the GM vs Astons battles, now the focus is on prototypes. Last edited by JAG; 24 Oct 2006 at 19:38. |
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24 Oct 2006, 22:15 (Ref:1748212) | #157 | |
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[QUOTE=JAG]I wouldn't feel too sorry, who remembers RFH winning race after race in the FIA ISRS, yet everyones well aware of Dysons almost legendary fights against Audi in the ALMS. [QUOTE]
Interview with Lammers on DSC:- 'So for us, 2007-08-09 is a build-up to where we want to be. I'd rather be a small player in a big programme than a big player in a small one' |
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24 Oct 2006, 22:41 (Ref:1748231) | #158 | |
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The reason I posted the BMW 3 series coupe vs. 3 series gasoline to show that diesel engines with equal horsepower but much greater torque are just about as quick. You can also see that a diesel with 670 horsepower would probably have the same performance as a 650 horsepowre gasoline powered race car. Meaning that a horsepower difference is almost required for equal performance.
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25 Oct 2006, 07:35 (Ref:1748508) | #159 | ||
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http://www.mulsannescorner.com/news.html has a good English translation of Henri's letter and some reaction from the paddock, including Serge Saulnier.
Saulnier is really wearing his Peugeot hat: Quote:
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25 Oct 2006, 13:31 (Ref:1749001) | #160 | ||
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Porsche seems to be speculating for more rule changes in 2008 to make petrol and diesel truely equivalent.
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25 Oct 2006, 13:38 (Ref:1749007) | #161 | ||
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25 Oct 2006, 19:32 (Ref:1749305) | #162 | ||
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A while back someone mentioned bigger restrictors for the closed cars because of air conditioning. I vaguely remember reading somewhere (Autosport?) that the Pescas ran in 2006 with air-con and the bigger restrictors because the rules didn't specify that it was only for closed cars. Is this true or just an urban myth?
On another tack, someone else mentioned the difference between European and US octane ratings (102 vs 96 I think). How much effect would this have on the power output? Are the Euro teams allowed to take their own fuel to ALMS, or is that privilege just accorded to the Audis? |
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25 Oct 2006, 20:01 (Ref:1749336) | #163 | ||
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I am very sure this was not the case, because the ACO rules really mention the car has to be a coupe to get the bigger restrictor. |
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26 Oct 2006, 00:08 (Ref:1749478) | #164 | ||
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26 Oct 2006, 06:54 (Ref:1749623) | #165 | |
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I don't understand his reasoning either. This guy seem to forget that Audi really turned down the consumption (and pace) at the end of Laguna to avoid a last splash and dash. And Audi still had its 90 litre tank; only the refuelling restrictor is smaller.
9 litre less fuel indeed means around -9 kg when the tank is completely full; in the middle of the stint it will be 4.5 kg lighter. But the R10 is already 10 kg too heavy. |
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26 Oct 2006, 10:17 (Ref:1749876) | #166 | ||
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Still Learning
Question to all you experts:
I am aware that the LM 24 is always oversubscribed, hence the success of the various races that have an entry as the prize. Suppose the race were just run for LMP1 and 2, leave the GTs out of it as they have the SPA 24, would the ACO get enough takers to give them a full grid? Do they ever publish the full list of applications for an entry or the actual entry fee(s) |
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26 Oct 2006, 11:12 (Ref:1749932) | #167 | |||
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There would be something of a struggle for a full grid of LMPs and I hope it doesn't take that route - There is sometimes info available about the number of applications in each class but a full entry list has seldom if ever been made available |
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26 Oct 2006, 11:32 (Ref:1749953) | #168 | |||
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26 Oct 2006, 17:01 (Ref:1750218) | #169 | ||
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The modern prototype (3.5l Group C onwards) are very expensive to buy and run so we couldn't rely on 15-20 'filler' cars as they did with the 962/Spice (which were also competitive) back in the day. It's preferable to have quality GT1 and GT2 entrants than a dozen old SR2 Lolas and Pilbeams. |
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26 Oct 2006, 17:50 (Ref:1750273) | #170 | |
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I like things as they are at the moment. One of the beauties of the current four class system is that there is almost always a significant battle for position going on in one of the classes. It really is four races in one, hard to follow trackside, but immensely entertaining if you can keep up with what's happening.
(Or is that five races in one for next year? ) |
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26 Oct 2006, 18:35 (Ref:1750312) | #171 | |
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Although I am very pro going all protos, cant help but feel there would be an element missing without the GTs. Have to say some of the most entertaining racing happens with the LMPs weaving through traffic - cant imagine it being as exciting without them.........
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26 Oct 2006, 21:39 (Ref:1750505) | #172 | ||
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My knee jerk reaction was to say I'd like to see an all prototype field thinking about it briefly comes up with a very different answer.
First off, having different battles that really mean something makes the race come alive. Seeing LNT slowly but surely overhaul Seikel kept me fascinated even although the race for overall P1 was long since done and dusted. Equally at Donington sitting under the Spitfire and watching Aston Martin sneak it past Corvette at the death counts as incredibly memorable. Second, diversity counts. Okay prototypes haven't yet been polluted in the way single seaters have with identikit chassis, but a good mix of the exotic, the familiar, the wierd, and the wonderful is what gives sportscar racing its richness. Third, impartial observers like watching cars they recognise. More Ferraris, Aston Martins, Porsches, and TVRs will keep this valuable constituency happy. And finally, echoing JAG, in one word - 1992. Eurosport's commentary that year, desperately hyping it on the warm up lap claiming it was a small field "but a quality one" teetered on the brink of having me chuck a shoe at the television. |
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26 Oct 2006, 22:47 (Ref:1750541) | #173 | ||
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As most of you know I am a big GT fan and whilst I dont like the LMP's as much I still think they also have their place at the big race. Getting rid of GT cars would just be plain wrong in my mind, sure they arent as fast as some of the LMP's but thats mainly down to the rules rather than the cars ability. Give them 16 inch wide tyres like the LMP1's use and a slightly bigger restrictor and the differnce between the 2 classes would be minimal.
Part of what makes sportscar racing special to me as has already been mentioned is its diversety, what other form of motorsport is there that has 4 classes of cars racing at the same time on the same track? None that I know of. It is fun watching the differnt classes of cars trip each other up as they battle for class postition. Yes normally it is the LMP's going past the GT cars but how often have we seen in recent years GT1 cars overtaking LMP2 class cars on the mulsanne and indeed outpacing them at Le Mans? Things are good as they are at the moment, manufacturers are coming back into sportscar racing and the manufacturers that are already here look like they are staying. As they saying goes, if it aint broke, dont fix it. |
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27 Oct 2006, 10:06 (Ref:1750889) | #174 | ||
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OK, that started a nice little debate, I tend to agree that the diverse field is good and allows more teams to sample the great race. Driver qualifications sometimes leave a little to be desired but again 'twas ever thus I suspect.
Nobody answered my question on entry fees, do they all pay the same? I believe it is 30.000 Euro with a 5k non returnable deposit with entry, balance when you get a slot, is that correct? Fuel is supplied by the organisers, is that paid for in the entry fee or an added extra? My point is that GT entreis are vital to the continued success of the great race and so deserve the same attention from all comentators and the press and MC makes a great point on dsc about the way GT entries are treated by the "Worlds Leading Motorsport Magazine" and others. It is correct to say 4 races in one and the mix adds considerably to the skill required to survive and the spectator interest but why should sponsors and drivers pay the same money for no recognition of their efforts? Quite correct that the public identify with cars they can recognise but do we really need GT1 and 2? Would it not be great to see what unrestricted GT2 cars could do against the AM and GM cars? There again, if a certain configuration in an otherwise equal spec gives a team an advantage in reducing the pit stops why should we penalise them? The concern today is on carbon emissions and motor racing must be seen to be part of that battle or we will find it being the subject of negative legislation. Heaven forbid that we have an economy run but perhaps we should think of something along these lines, a diesel 997 RSR perhaps? |
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27 Oct 2006, 16:08 (Ref:1751243) | #175 | |
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I could probably put an argument together that in these global warming times, most of the pollution at motor sport events comes from the spectators' cars (getting there) not the race cars - at least it should do!
So logically fewer, longer events creates less pollution than more shorter ones - so the LMS (and Le Mans) fits that argument. Longer races then please - ie. fewer, bigger events (you other series). Sorry - that was a bit off topic. |
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