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22 Nov 2017, 02:04 (Ref:3782103) | #201 | ||
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This is followed by analysis that proves the claim is at best suspect, and then there is a lot of screaming and shouting about how Hamilton is not worshipped as some kind of deity. Mercedes have won 63 of the last 79 grand prix. Hamilton has won 40, his team mates have won 23. When in the history of F1 has one team achieved an 80% win rate over four seasons? Never! Lewis is a very good and a deserving champion, but he has basically only beaten his team mate over three of the past four years, as you say comparisons are pointless, therefore people should refrain from the temptation of referring to Hamilton as the greatest ever driver. Then people will not be tempted to point out the inaccurate use of absolute comparisons made by said Fanboys. |
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22 Nov 2017, 02:53 (Ref:3782109) | #202 | ||
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Dare I open the can of worms by suggesting Schumacher/Ross Brawn/Rosberg deserve a lot more praise than they currently receive for building Merc into the powerhouse they now are....
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Part time wingman, full time spud. |
22 Nov 2017, 03:04 (Ref:3782112) | #203 | ||
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Anyway, while I think Hamilton & Vettel are effectively each other's equal, it is a lot easier in this day and age to make the most of a dominant car.
The reason being is that reliability plays such a massive factor. The dominant cars (and most cars in general) are retiring a lot less - Hamilton has had zero retirements this year, a credit to him for not crashing but also a credit to his team for building such a strong car mechanically. As an example, only 15 of 26 drivers this year have recorded top-6 finishes - whereas in a dominant season such as 2002 for Ferrari, 18 of 24 (and every team) managed this. My point is that while the current drivers are very very good, their elevated statistics are a by-product of the reliable F1 age we currently live in - and we cannot really compare them in an overall sense accurately. The only real barometers are their teammates, and Hamilton has had a decent enough edge over his teammates over the course of his career. |
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Part time wingman, full time spud. |
22 Nov 2017, 04:56 (Ref:3782123) | #204 | ||
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When did I do dangerous driving??? |
22 Nov 2017, 06:05 (Ref:3782129) | #205 | |||
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Quote:
He described Hamilton as being 'difficult to beat', something backed up by anyone who has raced with or against him I would imagine. The only thing we know for sure is that he his talent matched to his cars has allowed him to be hugely successful in the era he has raced. |
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22 Nov 2017, 08:24 (Ref:3782144) | #206 | ||
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Their stats are bigger only because they race so many times a year.
What would people think Prosts's Senna's, Clark's Stewarts stats would be if they were racing in 20 races a year in the 70's! I would think very much the same or better. But, far fewer of them would be alive today |
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22 Nov 2017, 08:40 (Ref:3782146) | #207 | |||
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22 Nov 2017, 10:01 (Ref:3782160) | #208 | ||
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Less than half the field finishing a grand prix used to be a common occurrence in the 80s and before. Even with todays massively over complicated engines, the finishing rate is much higher (unless you are Max Verstappen!)
Using stats to compare drivers from different eras is very difficult indeed. |
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It's just my opinion. |
22 Nov 2017, 12:18 (Ref:3782174) | #209 | ||
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I would say the driver standard has been pretty stable since the early 90's give or take boom periods.
The car standard overall has improved massively now, with the lack of massively low budget teams like Osella, Minardi et al. I think the drivers have been a similar level for many years, just hampered by awful cars until the very recent times. Even if you go back to Hispania and Caterham really. Which wasn't long ego. There are no sheds like that anymore |
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22 Nov 2017, 13:37 (Ref:3782187) | #210 | |
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I'd say its significantly above what it used to be. Right now we highlight drivers like Stroll as being poor and a pay driver, yet back in the mid-90s you had a whole host of drivers who were miles worse. Gone are the days of Taki Inoue, or even Yuji Ide.
Drivers now days get less testing and are expected to preform to a higher standard. |
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22 Nov 2017, 14:37 (Ref:3782207) | #211 | ||
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That paragraph is as good a summation of the general problem of online debate as I've seen - the general problem being:
Those of us who wear reasonable hats get drowned out by all the shouting, and then everyone who's left spends all their time moaning about how it isn't like the old days. Anyway, Hamilton... I'm still pleased he won the WDC again. He and Mercedes have had basically the perfect season, as they did last year, to snag both pots. I'm just a bit worried that we're heading for another two years of them doing that again, which would be very Schumacher-esque and probably cause even more reasonable voices to disappear! Last edited by Greem; 22 Nov 2017 at 14:37. Reason: Fixed the quote |
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23 Nov 2017, 18:03 (Ref:3782452) | #212 | |||
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I personally think comparing different stats is nigh on impossible. Since the beginning of F1 back in the 1950s, the sport has evolved so much. For example there are now 20 races per season, which gives a driver a greater opportunity to win races and or claim pole position. As for the points system, it's completely different. |
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
24 Nov 2017, 19:15 (Ref:3782676) | #213 | ||
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280 days...... |
25 Nov 2017, 12:04 (Ref:3782891) | #214 | |
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29 Nov 2017, 09:36 (Ref:3783978) | #215 | ||
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When did I do dangerous driving??? |
1 Dec 2017, 05:11 (Ref:3784473) | #216 | ||
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Lewie flagging that he may end up retiring in the next couple of years..
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...-in-f1-984187/ Last edited by Skam85; 1 Dec 2017 at 05:22. |
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1 Dec 2017, 13:28 (Ref:3784543) | #217 | |
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I think we'll have to see on that one, depends if he thinks he's achieved all he wants to
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
1 Dec 2017, 19:02 (Ref:3784609) | #218 | ||
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It isn’t easy being an F1 driver!
Look, buddy, you're not dealing with any dumb, two-bit, pedal-pumping moron with low hairlines, little piggy eyes and no conversation! I’m a caring, intelligent guy you'd probably really like if you met me socially. I don't go around gratuitously racing around and then brag about it in seedy driver bars. I go around gratuitously racing around, then I agonise about it afterwards to my girlfriend! And I write songs! Though I haven't had any released yet. So I'd better warn ya, I'm in a mean mood! |
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Brum brum |
1 Dec 2017, 20:24 (Ref:3784619) | #219 | ||
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Maybe he should quit F1 and do an Alonso and try to get the Triple Crown. That's two races a year, which would give him plenty of time to do those other things and still be involved in racing.
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
2 Dec 2017, 00:44 (Ref:3784644) | #220 | |
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2 Dec 2017, 00:49 (Ref:3784645) | #221 | ||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
2 Dec 2017, 01:39 (Ref:3784654) | #222 | ||
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Wonder how many NASCAR mechanics have any sympathy for Hamilton and his terrible plight? Mercedes racing mechanics even. |
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2 Dec 2017, 12:39 (Ref:3784731) | #223 | ||
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Richard |
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To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
2 Dec 2017, 12:44 (Ref:3784733) | #224 | ||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
2 Dec 2017, 20:44 (Ref:3784794) | #225 | ||
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