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3 Apr 2008, 07:45 (Ref:2168437) | #1 | ||
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Can someone explain the current detailed rules on the Engines?
I.e. What size (350 cu in?), I realise that have to be Pushrod V8's but as Toyota are in they can just build a Pushrod V8 to a certain spec sheet.
Are they Alloy block and heads, etc. The Ford and Chevy lumps are they actually still related to any production equivalent engine? LS for Chevy for instance or are they blank sheet engines too? Powe?r torque? in unrestricted amd restrictor plate races? |
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3 Apr 2008, 14:05 (Ref:2168699) | #2 | |||||
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UnRestrict - 750-800bhp. |
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3 Apr 2008, 14:34 (Ref:2168714) | #3 | |||
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So can anyone get hold of one of these or are the blocks heads just made for the MotorSport Teams by the manufacturers? How does that side of things work? So my LS6 is not related to the Chevy Imapala SS that Hendricks runs then! They make very good power for a 5.8 pushrod lump in unrestricted form then. Huge Drop for restrictor race (surely too much considering the wight the have to move!?). Cheers Jon |
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3 Apr 2008, 14:49 (Ref:2168724) | #4 | |||
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3 Apr 2008, 14:56 (Ref:2168734) | #5 | |||
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3 Apr 2008, 15:09 (Ref:2168739) | #6 | ||
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Minimum weight with driver is 3400 lbs (1545kg).
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"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." -Ayrton Senna |
3 Apr 2008, 15:15 (Ref:2168744) | #7 | |||
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3 Apr 2008, 16:06 (Ref:2168784) | #8 | ||
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Most of the engine parts are custom made by the engine builders, Not manufacutres. When an engine builder finds a very good part, they send the specs to that manufacture to get that manufacures part number. With the manufactures part number on a custom made piece, it is now legal to use.
That is why there are only a few real NASCAR and truck engine builders. Hendrick, Yates, Roush, Jasper, Gibbs*, RCR and a few others. *Gibbs racing used the same engines, but differnt part numbers when they switched from Chevy to Toyota. |
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3 Apr 2008, 16:39 (Ref:2168819) | #9 | |
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So Toyota powered by Chevy?
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3 Apr 2008, 17:35 (Ref:2168851) | #10 | |||
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Naw they put Toyota part numbers over the Gibbs engines. |
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3 Apr 2008, 22:40 (Ref:2169097) | #11 | ||
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The block has to be "stock", and iron. IE: the Chevy uses the iron "SBC" block, the Ford uses the "351 whatever", Dodge uses the "Hemi", and Toyota uses the "Tundra" (their big truck) block (which the specially developed so they could enter NASCAR). I don't think it's available in the US spec Camry.
The SBC is where I'll concentrate, as I know more about it. The heads are known as "SBC2.2" which is an asymmetrical port setup, similar to that you have on your LS1, with the ports being in/ex/in/ex/in/ex/in/ex compared to the normal SBC as ex/in/in/ex/ex/in/in/ex (as used on the Nationwide motors) The SBC2.2 is a bit of a homologation special - they don't use / haven't used it on street motors. Cup engines are "flat tappet", no nice roller rockers/tappets here. You can have those in Nationwide. Cup engines rev to 9200 and sometimes more! That's a lot of revs for a big hunk of iron. Nationwide motors rev to about 8600 They say that the Toyota is a pretty good copy of a SBC!! It's not exactly rocket science! Rob. |
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There is no substitute for cubic inches. Harry Belamonte - 403ci Vauxhall Belmont!! A 700hp wayward shopping trolley on steroids!! |
4 Apr 2008, 09:28 (Ref:2169318) | #12 | ||
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Excellent stuff so I am close to having a NASCAR Based engine in my car then Iron block hmmmm.
Alloy heads though? |
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5 Apr 2008, 22:17 (Ref:2170722) | #13 | ||
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yes.
You can buy SB2.2 heads off the shelf, CNC ported for around $6000/pair new. |
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There is no substitute for cubic inches. Harry Belamonte - 403ci Vauxhall Belmont!! A 700hp wayward shopping trolley on steroids!! |
7 Apr 2008, 07:58 (Ref:2171962) | #14 | |||
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Also any idea who / where would be the best people to get ready to go Full race Alloy Ford 302 heads? |
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7 Apr 2008, 15:47 (Ref:2172417) | #15 | ||
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alloy heads and iron block- every part must be available to any one with a check book as per rules...
you can order through ford parts catalog, or GM performance a nascar spec engine. in parts and every thing else through suppliers or teams and 302 alloy heads i would go roush or yates but try australia- arent the V8s runing 5 litre engines? or are though DOHC? |
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7 Apr 2008, 15:56 (Ref:2172424) | #16 | ||
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Yeah, us Aussies run 5.0l engines, pushrod though I'm pretty sure. Our engines are as far removed from what is available in a roadcar as possible. You can't get a 5l Holden or Ford anymore. I'll ask around for some more info for you.
Cheers, Mick |
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7 Apr 2008, 16:39 (Ref:2172460) | #17 | ||
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The V8 Supercar engines are basically Chevy Aurora and Ford Windsor five litre lumps. 600-650 horsepower, pushrod actuated valves and injection.
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7 Apr 2008, 16:43 (Ref:2172462) | #18 | ||
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The Aurora engine is no longer used, instead it is now the Holden MotorSport engine, which I believe is closer to the Windsor style-ish engine that the Fords use. But realistically, they have no link to any engine available.
Mick |
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7 Apr 2008, 19:52 (Ref:2172600) | #19 | |||
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Who wants all that complication of loads of cams to time in - rubbish. |
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10 Apr 2008, 07:36 (Ref:2174304) | #20 | ||
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Aussie engines are rev limited to 7500 too. That keeps the power down. They have fuel injection which helps mid-range and driveability. Yep, the Holden Engine is based on the Gen II Smallblock at 302ci/5L, and not the Gen IV (LS1/2/6) motors they run in the production cars - which are much more advanced!!
But that's off the topic. The fact is, they get over 100bhp/litre out of a 2v/cyl pushrod engine, which is pretty amazing. They are helped by crazy high static compression ratio's, lots and lots of octane in the guzzoline, and other tips and tricks. Until recently (must be about 10yrs, which is recent in the NASCAR timeline!), the often used 6/7port oil pumps, where 1 for pressure, 2 for scavenge, and the rest to pull a vacuum in the sump! It makes the rings seal better at high revs, and thus make more power. The downside is that it *can* pull the flamefront past the rings into the sump, together with fuel/air mix, and..... booom! There used to be some spectacular engine blow-ups on the superspeedways, mostly caused by engine wear - then sucking the flames into the sump where they ignite any fuel or oil vapour. I run NASCAR spec composite gaskets on my Thundersaloon's 403ci motor, because even clever steel reinforced silicon gaskets get sucked in with lots of block vacuum! One benefit is that oil hopefully stays in the engine/system, and doesn't get blown out (like older Chevy V8's just love to do!) Rob. |
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There is no substitute for cubic inches. Harry Belamonte - 403ci Vauxhall Belmont!! A 700hp wayward shopping trolley on steroids!! |
10 Apr 2008, 11:23 (Ref:2174446) | #21 | ||
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Again slight off topic - but surely the Ausy seris and the US to a less extent HAVE to go to the more modern pushrods like the lsx's at some point!?
Can they seriously still be running on the base iron block from 20+yearsback in another 20 years? |
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10 Apr 2008, 19:13 (Ref:2174735) | #22 | ||
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I thought Chevy was using RCR's R07 block.
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11 Apr 2008, 06:55 (Ref:2175012) | #23 | |||
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11 Apr 2008, 18:49 (Ref:2175463) | #24 | |||
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12 Apr 2008, 23:49 (Ref:2176128) | #25 | ||
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This is why NASCAR is so successful. The rules are simple, and the rules are stable.
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There is no substitute for cubic inches. Harry Belamonte - 403ci Vauxhall Belmont!! A 700hp wayward shopping trolley on steroids!! |
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