What's wrong with Williams?

[climb]

Welcome on board, DKGBH, I'm sure your post will horrify some purists round here
It is actually impossible to read in drivers' minds thus we'll never know.
Theoretically, as they're generously paid to do their best, and, what is more, ev'ry driver has a huge ego to fulfill, things like that shouldn't happen, but, you know, none of them (apart from ralf's current health problems) has to get a contract, cos they've already secured a seat for next years, so....

[Kicking-back]

I can see no evidence the drivers aren't giving 100%.

This type of debate happened a couple of months back with Mark Webber.

The conclusion is even though a driver is moving, he still wants to do the best he can now.

[DKGandBH]

So you think the last couple of races where The Williams cars have been lower than the rest of the season is purely coincidental.../

David...

[Adam43]

Welcome

I don't beleive that they would purposely not try as hard. They are racing drivers!

Also your reasoning about taking money away from the team they drive for next year is a nice consiracy, however they probably get some bonuses for the points they score themselves. In which case they'll be taking money away from themselves!

Not that long ago drivers used to change around more and this situation was more common. However I don't remember them backing off. For a real racing driver they want to race the race they are in. Senna didn't let Prost win the last couple of races in '93 because he was goign to Williams (although the championship had been long settled).

As mentioned we just don't know what a driver is thinking, but I think the simplest and most likely thing is that they are just getting on with trying finish as high up as possible in the race.

[DKGandBH]

Just my opinion.

If there is a McLaren in front of a JPM, I doubt that he will try as hard as "normal" to pass.

[gert]

Originally posted by DKGandBH
Just my opinion.

If there is a McLaren in front of a JPM, I doubt that he will try as hard as "normal" to pass.

Possible, but most of the time that hasn't been a problem.

Most of the time there was no McLaren in fornt, and when it was, it was too far ahead to even think about passing it.. (Raikkonen @Silverstone)

[Adam43]

I bet he would, especially if it was Kimi!

[Gt_R]

Quote:"The question is: How does Williams recover as they are in jeopardy of being 5th or 6th if the trend continues. A nightmare that PH and FW do not want to live."

There's really little they could do at this moment other than to work flat out on the car and test test test it to make it work. And as JPM/Ralf for various reasons have their testing roles reduced, there is little choice but put the increased workload onto the test drivers..

But there's a feeling that given the "quality" of the two test drivers, one can feel that Williams could have got better feedbacks from a driver of perhaps Ralf/ Nick/ Webber calibre.

Sam Michael is now on a very steep learning curve, and honestly, he and his 2 drivers (JPM and whoever's the chosen replacement) CANNOT afford to throw away points as other teams would be right there to snap it up. People can come up with hundreds of excuses for Williams, but F1 takes none of it, a mistake is a mistake, an error is an error.

They've thown away 3 good point-finishes in Indy/Canada..Gene has dropped points by his average performance..and we'd have expected JPM to really lead the charge forward and secure more points than he already had. Williams pay not be very good at this time, but the points they've got could and should have been more than what they had got so far.

More importantly, Head and his team of engineers/designers have to dictate a path which next season's car is to take and work hard to optimise it..no more "trial and error" like the past 2 attempts.

[Kicking-back]

Williams did, of course, finish 5th in 1999.

McLaren haven't been out of the top 4 since 1983.

[darcym]

As an aside.

Look at ferrari - they where nowhere for 27 years, then they got a group of good people together....and made them a team. Ferrai didn't become good overnight, loook at 96 - the car was a dog, but each year they grew to be the unstopable force they are now. Getting the latest "top designer" in each year the team needs to work as a team for a sustained period of time to understand how each other works, and have a stable pair of drivers to base the car around their driving styles.

This was one of my main critisisms of Jordan and BAR, BAR stopped this trend and appear on the way up, Jordan have not stopped this trend and are going nowhere. Look at the 2000 - 2001 Benetton/Renault it was a pig, yet give the team time to gell, and they are coming up. Loose gasgoin and it slips, not because its gasgoin but because the team looses a key player.

[Kirk]

I think DKG has a point about the motivation factor of RS/JPM when they are both signed elsewhere for 2005. It is only human nature "to survive" and therefore they'd be inclined to take less chances, play it safe and try and stay healthy for next year. I think we forget too easily that these guys are literally putting their lives on the line each and every lap. Auto racing cannot be compared to any other pro sport because of that very factor.
As cold as it sounds, the think tank at Williams should take advantage of Ralf's injury and if at all possible bring in his replacement asap. It would pay dividends for next year.

[Led ZeppF1]

F1Total's Von Hust/Nimmervoll write that the "Hammerhead" is soon become history.

http://www.f1total.com/news/04072012.shtml

According to the article, the "hammerhead" nose will maybe be gone already at Hungary (eventhough I think it sounds unlikely). Next year it will definitely be gone, since new regulations will lessen the advantage of this construction.

The article says that the problem with the hammerhead is that it makes the chassis very sensitive to side wind and also it creates problems to use ballast in an efficient way.

[Led ZeppF1]

GP2003's "Our spies at Silverstone report" also write that Williams is considering changing back to a conventional nose sometime this season.

But they have to stick with the twin-keel concept, because otherwise they need a complete new monocoque. The FW27 for 2005 will however, definitely run with a normal nose and a single-keel front suspension.

http://www.gp2003.com/index.php?lang=uk&lastpoll=89

[RWC]

This years lame BMW is a big factor in williams performance this year.Even the team said they needed more power!

[Kicking-back]

Quite possible, RWC. People often say the BMW is one of the best engines - but I wonder if that's still the case.

[Mr V]

I don't think it is anymore.

[Glen]

It's a bit strong to be blaming BMW - they might not be giving Williams the clear advantage that they have before, but it is still a very competitive engine and not loads worse than the opposition.

The drivers are saying that the Williams just doesn't have enough downforce and corner speed. Also that the chassis lacks traction - if they had more power they would still lack traction.

[Gt_R]

I think BMW is still one of the strengths remaining from an otherwise lacking Williams package.

[Bononi]

Originally posted by Gt_R
I think BMW is still one of the strengths remaining from an otherwise lacking Williams package.

I agree completely.

[Kicking-back]

Impossible to tell, really.

[spider]

KB, just PM'd you fella

[spider]

It is impossible to tell, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari, Honda and Toyota are pumping out more power now.

It's not just about power though, it's about the total package - weight, how compact it is, Centre of Gravity, vibration levels, torque etc...

[Gt_R]

BMW still manage to push out a decent amount of power to give Williams some of the best top speed we see this year. And reliability wise, we don't see a BMW blow as much as Cosworths/Mercedes/Hondas.

On the otherhand, the main complains this year regarding Williams is how tricky and nervous the handling, how poor the car is reacting to set ups, how it struggles for traction...

[Led ZeppF1]

Frank Williams had underline the team's problems are not the fault of its drivers.

Sir Frank said he did not hold the drivers responsible. “It’s very simple: in order to win you need a car in which you can win in. Our goal has to be to supply a car that is in a position to do so."

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=30803

[Led ZeppF1]

And, Mario Theissen has admitted that Williams gambles was failed.

"If you do everything like the top guys, you can only close in but not pass. So that was a clear decision supporter by us to take the risk. Unfortunately, it didn't pay off," he said.

http://www.eurosport.com/home/pages/...to620738.shtml