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View Poll Results: Worst Winner at Le Mans (overall) | |||
Bentley EXP Speed 8 | 11 | 18.33% | |
Dauer Porsche 962/GT1 | 32 | 53.33% | |
1952 Merc 300SL | 5 | 8.33% | |
1975 Mirage-Ford | 4 | 6.67% | |
1980 Rondeau | 5 | 8.33% | |
1991 Mazda 787 | 3 | 5.00% | |
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll |
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5 Jul 2005, 12:29 (Ref:1347660) | #1 | ||
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Worst sportscar ever to win Le Mans
Since we are going through another "book of records" phase, which car that has won the 24 Hours deserved it the least?
For me, there is one clear winner: the Aud-... ahem, Bentley EXP Speed 8. |
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5 Jul 2005, 12:46 (Ref:1347682) | #2 | ||
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A non deserved - or at least less deserved victory at LM ? Mmm, tough question...
Have we to be logical, or are biased opinions allowed there ? Hawthorn/Bueb in 1955 ? Note that I don't answer the question... the car is not in cause there... |
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5 Jul 2005, 12:49 (Ref:1347684) | #3 | ||
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Mirage-Ford in '75. Their only real competition was the pair of Ligier coupes, which weren't really in the same league, and some old 908s... The '75 Le Mans grid looks like an oversubscribed clubbie meeting...
Or the Dauer 962 - a car which was (IMHO) so far outside the spirit of the rules that if it <b>didn't</b> win there should've been an outrage. |
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5 Jul 2005, 12:52 (Ref:1347690) | #4 | ||
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Biased opinions are absolutely allowed Fab......
Agree with you Pete - the Dauer 962 - a prototype 962 allowed to run as a GT. As far as I'm concerned, it brought disgrace on the ACO. It was also a huge shame that it deprived Toyota of a deserved win. As for the Bentley bashing, I'm definitely not of that mind. A great looking car which won the event comfortably and fairly. I don't see how that can be the worst. If so, I'm just as entitled to cite a zillion years of R8s............ |
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280 days...... |
5 Jul 2005, 12:57 (Ref:1347696) | #5 | ||
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I've added a poll. More cars to be added as and when you post 'em!
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280 days...... |
5 Jul 2005, 12:59 (Ref:1347700) | #6 | |||
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Quote:
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5 Jul 2005, 13:00 (Ref:1347703) | #7 | ||
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Done Pete
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280 days...... |
5 Jul 2005, 13:15 (Ref:1347718) | #8 | ||
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Definitely the Dauer. Should never have been au Mans.
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5 Jul 2005, 13:23 (Ref:1347724) | #9 | |
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Bentley for me. 2003 was a load of contrived nonsense, utterly boring race and Wallace / Butch and EVdP were removed from the squad.
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5 Jul 2005, 13:29 (Ref:1347730) | #10 | ||
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Quote:
How can a car which IIRC broke the records for distance covered and least time in the pits figure in this poll? The correct answer is the Dauer of course ... |
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5 Jul 2005, 13:31 (Ref:1347733) | #11 | ||
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Talking of the EXP-8, there were fairly persistent rumours that some of the early chassis testing was done with a non-Audi normally-aspirated V8 - possibly a Cossie of some description. Anyone able to substantiate this?
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5 Jul 2005, 13:33 (Ref:1347734) | #12 | |||
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Quote:
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5 Jul 2005, 14:40 (Ref:1347813) | #13 | |||
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In my book, the Bentley EXPs are the all-time corporate "low" at Le Mans - to date... Anyway the Dauer in and for itself probably wasn't much better, but as a small sub-chapter of the 962's long history, it has its charm. |
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5 Jul 2005, 15:15 (Ref:1347874) | #14 | |||
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I have to agree about the cowardly way to (not) race, though. In a sense it reminds me of BMW although at least in 2000 they ran the cars over here. (I guess that boils down to "if they don't run at Mosport I don't care...") I can't take Bentley seriously as a car, particularly when it was revealed that they had trick tires not supplied to anyone else, and the distance record they set was broken the very next year by a restricted (and undeveloped from the previous year) Audi on the same trick tires. |
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5 Jul 2005, 15:19 (Ref:1347880) | #15 | ||
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I think that any driver or car that gets to the end of the Le Mans 24 hours in first place has to deserve it really, but I accept this is a bit of fun. In which case the most obvious candidate for me is the 1952 Mercedes 300SL win. They weren't fast enough and completely lucked in to their victory. The C-types should have won had they not messed about with their front bodywork to increase their speed when they were quite fast enough already, and all overheated early on because the new bodywork failed to allow enough cold air to the engine. The Gordini of Behra and Manson was also faster than the Mercs but retired with seized brakes, as was the Talbot Lago which was miles ahead until the 23rd hour (missed gear, but not necessarily Levegh's fault) and 6 out of the 7 Ferraris retired! I have nothing against Mercs, by the way, but this truly was a lucky victory.
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5 Jul 2005, 15:24 (Ref:1347884) | #16 | |||
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Certainly they talked it up well in the run up to Le Mans 03, with Bentley commenting after the test day "We know how fast Audi did go, we don't know how fast they can go...". Personally, I could understand them not competing between Sebring and Le Mans and choosing to test instead, but I was staggered when they went off to a museum rather than heading off to round out the ALMS season. |
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5 Jul 2005, 16:18 (Ref:1347937) | #17 | ||
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> I was staggered when they went off to a museum
I'm kind of amazed that they couldn't find a home - at least until this year's 24 Hours - with a favoured customer team. Audi got their hat-trick with the R8; it would've been more interesting to farm the EXPs out to (say) Goh and Champion and let them duke it out for the '04 and '05 wins. The R8 appeals to purists, people who know sports car racing pretty well. The Bentley was something that you spotted casual gearheads taking an interest in... I'm not sure what's more impressive - five wins and a third in six years, or two hat-tricks with very different cars Last edited by Pete Fenelon; 5 Jul 2005 at 16:20. Reason: factual error - fixed! |
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5 Jul 2005, 17:52 (Ref:1348022) | #18 | |||
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5 Jul 2005, 20:13 (Ref:1348158) | #19 | ||
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Must be that vile Rondeau !!!
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5 Jul 2005, 21:05 (Ref:1348228) | #20 | ||
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Well, I voted for the Dauer.
As for Bentley, I don't find that situation any different from the Toyota GT-One effort. Well, there is one difference, the Bentley actually won Le Mans. If Bentley would have raced Sebring, Le Mans, and Petit each year, I could have respected them more. |
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5 Jul 2005, 21:54 (Ref:1348281) | #21 | |
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Here is a controversial pick...how about the Mazda 787B? Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of their 1991 win. But beyond Le Mans the car was not that stellar (and admittedly had a nice helping of beneficial regulations at Le Mans that year).
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5 Jul 2005, 23:17 (Ref:1348332) | #22 | ||
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That's actually a very good observation MM. I was thinking about this the other day. The winning car was something like 19th on the grid and won on the back of reliability and mileage. The Saubers and Jags were the more complete cars and the Peugeots were on the rise.
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6 Jul 2005, 06:48 (Ref:1348501) | #23 | |||
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6 Jul 2005, 08:27 (Ref:1348554) | #24 | ||
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I am not sure how you can say there has ever been a bad winner of Le Mans. All the cars start with the same chance of winning, so what if a car starts 19th on the grid, maybe if the other 'faster' or 'more complete' cars ahead on the grid had put more thought into running the race, then one of them would have won.
Even the Dauer 962 had to overcome the might of Toyota to win, in some respects that makes it a great car. What you can say they have been winners who have beneifted from others being involved in crashes of other cars, and some cars that should not have been alllowed on the entry list (Dauer), but even that car was within the rules, just not the sprit. (A bit like the MC12) |
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Some people will tell you that slow is good - and it may be, on some days - but I am here to tell you that fast is better. H S Thompson 1937 - 2005 |
6 Jul 2005, 12:54 (Ref:1348733) | #25 | ||
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John, I added your suggestions and took off the Jag as no one had voted for it.
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