Did anyone else notice Ralfs... - Page 3

BBKing · 9 Sep 2001, 20:06 (Ref:144122)

Don K. I think you need to go back to school because your ability to count is not good.

At Imola you credit Ralf with 2 overtakings. considering he beat DC to the first corner and then lost the lead for his pitstops until DC pitted. No overtaking at all. While Montoya had those two genuine moves on Panis and Trulli. Let say fine. You use another measure to stablish what is overtaking but be consistent with it.

Australia. Ralf gain 1 position during the start then lost 3 positions before retiring. Montoya started from 11 and was 3rd when he went off in the firt corner. Then he ran from 17 to 3rd where he retired from. Yet you credit 1 to Ralf and 2 to JPM. If I am not mistaken you should have credited Montoya with (17-3) 14 moves. Ok Ralf and Villeneuve retired in front of him so is 14-2=12 at least. I am wrong?

Ralf's Girl · 9 Sep 2001, 20:17 (Ref:144137)

Quote:

Originally posted by BBKing
While Montoya had those two genuine moves on Panis and Trulli.

But when Ralf was at the front to start with he didn't need to overtake.

BBKing · 9 Sep 2001, 20:26 (Ref:144138)

Quote:

Originally posted by Ralf's Girl

But when Ralf was at the front to start with he didn't need to overtake.

Absolutely. But whenever he has been behind he was not able to pull one out…LOL

Ian-S · 9 Sep 2001, 20:43 (Ref:144148)

There was a rumour that Williams had thought that the race was aggregate, and that being so, little bro wouldn't had needed to do Jean.

This is the reason why the timing screens went down because they had Fischi listed as 9th when he was quite obviously 2nd (after the first lap this happened).

They did scrapped the rule last year because it's quite possible that if the leader has a 6 or so second lead when the race is stopped, they can actually fall to last place on the restart but should it finish under the safety car still win the race on combined times, seems that the orgainsers didn't know their own rules in Belgium

**Bononi** · 9 Sep 2001, 20:59 (Ref:144159)

Quote:

Originally posted by Ian-S
There was a rumour that Williams had thought that the race was aggregate, and that being so, little bro wouldn't had needed to do Jean.

If that's true, then things are worse than I thought at Williams !!

Ian-S · 9 Sep 2001, 21:18 (Ref:144167)

Yea, they do seemed to have lost their way recently, shame really.

Would be nice to see JP-M justify all those trips around in the cargo hold of that flower plane a few years back.

Don K · 10 Sep 2001, 05:21 (Ref:144284)

Quote:

Originally posted by BBKing
Don K. I think you need to go back to school because your ability to count is not good.

As I explained to you, I based these calculations solely on the lap chart.
So I looked at the positions, and every time when either Ralf or JPM ended a lap in front of a driver that was driving in front of him at the start of that lap, I try to guess whether or not this counts as an overtaking.
As I explained to you, I limit myself to scrathing probable pit stops and probable driver errors.

Quote:

At Imola you credit Ralf with 2 overtakings. considering he beat DC to the first corner and then lost the lead for his pitstops until DC pitted. No overtaking at all. While Montoya had those two genuine moves on Panis and Trulli. Let say fine. You use another measure to stablish what is overtaking but be consistent with it.

(Sorry, I have to go to work now. But looking at the way you counted Australia (see below), I don't know yet whether I will answer this part later.

Quote:

Australia. Ralf gain 1 position during the start then lost 3 positions before retiring. Montoya started from 11 and was 3rd when he went off in the firt corner. Then he ran from 17 to 3rd where he retired from. Yet you credit 1 to Ralf and 2 to JPM. If I am not mistaken you should have credited Montoya with (17-3) 14 moves. Ok Ralf and Villeneuve retired in front of him so is 14-2=12 at least. I am wrong?

As you say, Ralf gained one position during the first lap. So I guessed he overtook Barrichello. Had Barrichello gone of track, he probably would have lost more than 3 positions (as this was the first lap). So I decided to count this one. Whether or not Ralf lost any positions afterwards is completely irrelevant, since we are only counting overtaking manoeuvres.
Montoya started from 11, and ended his first lap on position 13. So this lap chart doesn't show any overtakings there.
He goes from 13 to 12 "overtaking" Frentzen who is going from 3 to 16. So that probably doesn't count (pit stop or driver error). From 12 to 10 "overtaking" Ralf and Jaques, who are retiring from the race. From 10 to 9 "overtaking" Jos going from 7 to 17. From 9 to 8 overtaking(?) Fisichella, at a time when some drivers seem to have a pit stop. From 8 to 7 "overtaking" Tarso, who is retiring. etc.
So I think you are mistken, looking at this lap chart JPM can be awarded either 1 (Fisi) or 0 overtakings. I (probably) assumed Fisi made a pit stop at that time, as Button seemed to make one only two laps later.

mjolnir · 10 Sep 2001, 05:54 (Ref:144286)

Quote:

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
Perhaps this is the one bane of the marvel of the Internet.

There is a consequence to everything - the so called freedom of speech

Ralf's Girl · 10 Sep 2001, 11:20 (Ref:144334)

Quote:

Originally posted by BBKing
Absolutely. But whenever he has been behind he was not able to pull one out…LOL

Of course, you are completely wrong. But I am not going to discuss that any further seeing as you are very obviously anti-Ralf and refuse to see my point of view. That's fine by me, it's not my problem.

Valve Bounce · 10 Sep 2001, 11:37 (Ref:144352)

Quote:

Originally posted by mjolnir

There is a consequence to everything - the so called freedom of speech

If freedom of speech is used to express what you believe in, I will stand up for your right. However, if freedom of speech is used as an excuse to start and continue with a slanging match, and pour vitriol on an F1 driver, then I just prefer to ignore that person.

Ian-S · 10 Sep 2001, 11:40 (Ref:144357)

What is this with is driver bashing?

For christ sakes people, you try driving one of those cars - you think it's easy or something????

BBKing · 10 Sep 2001, 13:49 (Ref:144403)

Don K. I cannot figure how you came up with 2 overtakings for Ralf at Imola yet 1 or 0 for JPM in Australia. In one your count pit stops and in the other you don't?

Relax RG. I just like to argue with you. You are supposed to be the one who has never been beaten. "never say never"....LOL

Don K · 10 Sep 2001, 17:27 (Ref:144485)

Quote:

Originally posted by BBKing
Don K. I cannot figure how you came up with 2 overtakings for Ralf at Imola yet 1 or 0 for JPM in Australia. In one your count pit stops and in the other you don't?

I explained about Australia this morning. Did you have a look at the lap chart? Or did you just skip it, along with the rest of my post?

Imola is a very clear case: Ralf started from 3, and completed the first lap in place 1. He overtook David (from 1 to 2) and Mika (from 2 to 4). Do you really think they made a pit stop during the first lap, apparently along with the other 19 drivers, who all managed to come back on track in approximately the same order?

In case you missed the link to the lap charts: here it is again (click on the previouw "here"). Please have a look at it, before attacking my calculations a fourth time.

Ralf's Girl · 10 Sep 2001, 19:44 (Ref:144576)

Quote:

Originally posted by BBKing
Relax RG. I just like to argue with you. You are supposed to be the one who has never been beaten. "never say never"....LOL

Your incessant driver bashing, to be quite honest, is rather sad. I am quite sure that *you* could not do any better and I would just love to see you try. Whatever you and your prejudice says, Ralf has won 3 races - 3 more than his team-mate, the God Montoya.

It is clearly impossible to debate anything with you because you turn everything into "Ralf is rubbish" so there's not really any point in trying, is there?

**Bononi** · 10 Sep 2001, 21:16 (Ref:144623)

Cool off BBKing... you can't beat Steph !!

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