Indy Cars first in motorsports to use a renewable fuel

[flying finn]

Indy Cars Ditch Petrol for Ethanol > http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...1/s1828320.htm

An ethanol shipment bound for the USA's Indy Car Series has departed a Wyoming production facility, the first step in making the series the first in motorsports to use a renewable fuel source. Indy cars will run on 100 per cent ethanol this season after using a 90-10 blend of gasoline and the corn-based fuel during the 2006 season.

The ethanol will be used for the first time in a two-day test session at Daytona International Speedway from January 31. About 120,000 gallons of the fuel will be supplied this year. Indy cars use a 3.5-litre Honda V8 engine.

Note: Champ Car World Series uses methanol. Methanol is manufactured from methane (the chief constituent of natural gas).

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Good to hear that racing can be enviromental too, but I am sure that there is something out there racing that is already "green". First major series might be a better description

[indycool]

Think this might be in response and clarification to the Arizona Business Journal story that came out after CC's Phoenix announcement that the Phoenix CC race would be the "first major race" not to use gasoline and reduce "carbon dioxide emissions" for the environment. They later edited out the "first major race" part but left the "carbon dioxide" reference in. I presume there's a environmental movement in Phoenix for everyone to hold their breath, too.

[Leighton Irwin]

Methanol is produced mainly from corn or to a lesser extent from sugar beet. CC and IRL have been using Methanol as long as I can remember. USAC, WOO, CRA and most other sprint car groups do too. Drag racing has many classes for ALKY and Nitromethane. Most Midget and TQ midgets run on Methanol. The major problem with producing Methanol (and I expect Ethanol) is that it utilizes huge quantities of water in the process. Indiania is having trouble with water supply because of the amount being used. Water is renewable but not always where it is removed from. ie, aquifiers. Methanol also attacks aluminum and as it washes piston walls completely clean a certain amount of synthetic lubricant or a vegetable based oil (Castrol R for the old timers) must be added.
Methanol is hard to ignite in cold weather so we used to add acetone to make it easier to start the engines. I have no experience with Ethanol but believe it is very similar.

[JohnSSC]

No fuel is truly "renewable" and the difficulty here is that often the costs associated to produce the renewable fuel (as in the amount of energy/resources it takes to create it in the first place) can make a renewable fuel more inefficient than what we are using. Most renewable fuels, including ethanol, are actually a net loss. That is, you use more energy to make it than what you "save" by not using petroleum.

Thanks Leighton for explaining methanol production - I was about to post on that but you did a much better job than I could have!

Funny, but I remember defending Indy Car racing in the '70s by saying it did not waste petroleum because it did not use it.

[Leighton Irwin]

You are right John. No fuel is renewable. With Alky fuels the source is vegetable matter so the crops are renewable unlike oil based fuels. Once either is burned (ignited) they are gone.
With methanol we used 40 to 50% more fuel per lap over gas.
The fumes are terrible and actually more toxic. One way to get a high though.

[Snips1]

Finally some positive exposure for OWR

[flying finn]

Current interest in ethanol lies in production derived from crops (bio-ethanol), and there's discussion about whether it is a sustainable energy resource that may offer environmental and long-term economic advantages over fossil fuels. The OP article states that the Indy Cars ethanol is dervived from corn making it a renewable fuel. Both ethanol and methanol are classified as alcohol fuels.

Ethanol fuel reading > here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel
Methanol fuel reading here > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_fuel
Liquid fuel reading here > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fuel

[Bob Riebe]

Methanol is also called wood alcohol, from which it can be obtained if desired; therefore methanol is as much a renewable fuel as Ethanol.

I despise catch phrases, as most are pure bull****.
Bob

[Tenoch]

It seems all the same to me, the big rave about ethanol was that it was gonna be cheaper than gasoline at the pump. But ever since it gained popularity it seems it costs just about the same as gasoline and you can only put it in certain cars.

One benefit is that ethanol is drinkable, all the alcohols be them vodka, rum or tequila are ethanol.

[Bob Riebe]

The wonderful Ethanol monster is coming full circle now, although in the financial pages this serious fault has been dixcussed for some time now; using corn for alcohol has driven the price of corn feed so high, many farmers cannot afford to use to feed their live stock in the winter, as has been done for half a century.

With the bad weather last year, expensive quality winter hay is both rare and extremely expensive, so some farmers decided to simply starve the livestock.
One farmer who was arrested, among more that few arrested, for this, his dead horses had sticks and rocks in their stomach showing how deserate for food they were.

Now with the "new great idea" using grass for alcohol will drive prices of hay as high as corn which many already cannot afford.

Many of the big companies involved in grain, are having in-house troubles as some want to put more corn into alcohol, but others are saying that they are already shorting existing contracts.

Ethanol, the wonder fuel.
Bob

[JohnSSC]

Not to mention that growing corn is extremely inefficient if you are only going to use the corn to make the fuel. People do not realize how much energy it takes to grow corn: the fertilizer is petroleum-based, all the machinery used to plant and harvest it, then truck it, process it, etc. All these things require massive amounts of petroleum.

As Bob correctly points out; supply and demand kick in so we can all go yipee as gas is a nickel cheaper and meat goes throough the roof because we feed cattle what, kids?? Right!! Corn!

Anything to avoid simply reinstituting the CAFE standards for fuel economy for cars and not exempting SUVs and mini vans.

Anyone who thinks American Foreign Policy is a nigtmare need only review our "Energy Policy" and our Agriculture policies to find fine examples of stupidity.

[icemachine]

Ethanol is fine as a fuel, but considering how big US government Corn subsidies already are (9 Billion last year, I think), making it from corn just isn't feasible. Switchgrass, used for ethanol production is at least close to yielding net energy gain, unlike corn, and can be grown using far less pesticides and fertilizers. It is a different sort of grass than what is used for hay.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by icemachine

Ethanol is fine as a fuel, but considering how big US government Corn subsidies already are (9 Billion last year, I think), making it from corn just isn't feasible. Switchgrass, used for ethanol production is at least close to yielding net energy gain, unlike corn, and can be grown using far less pesticides and fertilizers. It is a different sort of grass than what is used for hay.

If there is more money involved, alfalfa and meadow grass will be plowed under in a heart beat, and switch grass planted.
Wheat is already hurting from heavier corn planting, there is no magic or real positives from the much balleyhooed wonder fuel ethanol.
It was a scam born of ignorance or worse full knowledge of its short-comings, but as it was a easy way to get the farm vote, no one, really gave a damn.

This is not Brazil with sugar cane debri to get rid of, but in the Peter Pan minds of greenies and liberals, they pretend.
Bob

[JohnSSC]

I may be a liberal, but I am not unaware!

The best, fastest way to greater energy independence is not some panacea of "alternative fuels" which allow us to drive SUVs that get maybe 16 mpg at best in the real world, but to provide real incentives to build cars that get much better gas mileage and to finally build a transit system to aleviate the pressure on highways and reduce the number of miles driven.

Back in the day you could buy a Honda Civic that got an honest 40 mpg or better on the highway. Look at the difference in size between an '80 Civic and an '07 Civic. How much more in the way of petrochemicals to maks the plastics and fabrics in/on the vehicle are needed as well. Petrochemical consumption here is ridiculous and it is not just cars that are the problem.

The bottom line is that the best way to reduce dependence is to reduce the usage.

[icemachine]

You want to get better fuel mileage, convince people to lose weight and not sue so much.

I work in automotive, and you can only make a car so efficient. The added weight of all these safety features means whatever extra efficiencys you squeeze out of the powertrain, get sucked up by added weight of ABS, ESC, airbags, etc.

[paul-collins]

Back to the article, I guess the author meant to say that the IRL is the first series to exclusively use "a renewable fuel source."



http://www.mulsannescorner.com/nasamaxdm139.html

[thebear]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

This is not Brazil with sugar cane debri to get rid of, but in the Peter Pan minds of greenies and liberals, they pretend.
Bob

Another note on Brazil: The cars there run on E75. That's right, 75% gasoline, 25% ethanol. The government adjusts the % of ethanol acording to gasolne availability. Straight gasoline is sold as well. This results in many drivers using a hand calculator at the pump prior to filling up. They are calulating the lowest cost/mile of their fill, taking the reduced mileage that E75 provideds into their calculations.

[icemachine]

Or you can use one of these handy little tables
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:G...ol_-_70%25.svg

[JohnSSC]

You would have a hard time convincing me that ABS/Airbags and ESC weigh more than air conditioning with "climate control zones" and heated, leather seats and mini refrigerators, power windows, doors, locks, seats...

Anyway, I believe diesel technology will be filtering down to sedans (Grand-Am?) in that someone will be running a Jetta TDI this year. Be curious to see what the performance level will be on a production-based vehicle.

[Alex Toropov]

Tony George - Friend of the Family Farmer

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/57072

[bil588]

Why the long-winded history of the Phillips family encyclopedia? Because I was reminded of the incident this morning watching a CNN report on NASCAR’s plans to utilize unleaded gasoline in this weekend’s Auto Club 500. To hear the reporter or her interview with Jeff Burton, NASCAR is boldly going where no race series has gone before, is so environmentally sensitive as to make the Sierra Club and Greenpeace look like fronts for the “wise use” movement.

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/35575/