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28 May 2007, 16:22 (Ref:1922972) | #51 | ||
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Whilst it's true the definition is in the eye of the beholder, there is usually a consensus of opinion. Take the MGB for example, most people would acknowledge it is a classic, even though mass produced by BL and factory build quality was crap, but it caught the public's imagination and when I finish restoring my 72 roadster it will be a shining example, and yes it is also my everyday car.
Come along to Silverstone on June 23/24 and see thousands of MGs of every description and even more enthusiasts in one gathering and you will be impressed - guaranteed! |
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28 May 2007, 19:38 (Ref:1923179) | #52 | ||
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One thing I am sure about is that crap build quality does not rule out a car from being a classic. In some cases quite the opposite!
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28 May 2007, 21:23 (Ref:1923265) | #53 | ||
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One of the worst "crap" build classic cars were Lotus Elans. I would think that most Elan owners would agree. Although a lot of the problems were caused by poor (or no) maintenance . This is my opinion as I have worked on quite a few over the years including one that is driven round our local off road cycle track ! I won't start on Italian cars just yet !
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29 May 2007, 08:24 (Ref:1923501) | #54 | ||
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Clive you do know what the "B" in MGB stands for don't you?
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29 May 2007, 09:08 (Ref:1923543) | #55 | |||
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Quote:
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30 May 2007, 05:00 (Ref:1924339) | #56 | ||
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Bellybutton - everyone's got one!
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5 Jun 2007, 17:21 (Ref:1929538) | #57 | ||
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Last edited by Adam43; 5 Jun 2007 at 17:38. Reason: Link removed. |
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70-84 Vintage IMSA/SCCA WIDEBODY CORVETTE/Ohio, USA. Thanks, David |
6 Jun 2007, 12:07 (Ref:1930176) | #58 | ||
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That is a serious piece of kit iwb, do you race it or is it on permanent display in your showroom there?
If the latter do you have security issues? Whatever it is jawdroppingly gorgeous. |
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6 Jun 2007, 12:53 (Ref:1930217) | #59 | ||
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We do some vintage racing 4 to 5 events per year plus tt but I spend more time protecting the car on the track than racing, it might be more appropriately called "stretching her legs". The photo is from display at Summit Racings showroom. It is a bit much car for a beginner at 654 whp/#2564.
Thanks David ps, what is kit iwb? |
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70-84 Vintage IMSA/SCCA WIDEBODY CORVETTE/Ohio, USA. Thanks, David |
6 Jun 2007, 13:01 (Ref:1930232) | #60 | ||
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"kit" = "equipment". "iwb" = "imsawidebody"
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28 Jun 2007, 19:55 (Ref:1949145) | #61 | ||
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An interetsig thread and an interesting question.
To me, a "Classic Car" and a "Thoroughbred" are one and the same. Which of course is precisely why many years ago, the VCC classified them as PVTs - Post Vintage Thoroughbreds. Now, for example, an Alvis TD21 is a throuroughbred and captures the ethos of its age. To parody Jaguar's adverts of the 50s, "Grace, Pace and Space!" To me, the MG Magnette ZA/ZB was very much a sort of thoroughbred as it encapsulated the ethos of pre-war MG saloons: which I am sure was the intention. Leather upholstery; veneered dash etc. Same with the Riley Pathfinders of the same era. Provided it wasn't you who had to remove the head! For me, the later Farini A55/A60 clones, i.e. the MG Magnette, Wolseley amd Riley were simply, as one well known scribe (may have been Bolster??) described them in Autocar as "An Austin or Morris with a false moustache and glasses!" That said, I ran an A60 clone MG Magnette as my road car for six months, simply as I bought it for twopence from a service customer, since: it was taxed and after we'd dozed it out a bit straight and re-sprayed it it was nice. (It had been parked outside his house and smashed up the bum by a builder's truck!). OK, I know there ae enthusiasts who regularly meet and extol the virtues of their Mustard Coloured Hillman Avengers; or their dull maroon (weren't they all?), Austin 1800 - or as we called 'em, a Hydrolastic Haggis! But, but, neither of these awful ugly clunkers can by any stretch of the imagination be called "Classic": unless one means, of course, Classic Mistake! And, sadly, there were plenty around at the time! From Rootes; Ford, BLMH and Vauxhall! |
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9 Jul 2007, 22:24 (Ref:1959136) | #62 | ||
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hi there
does it matter if it can be called a classic or not? surely if you like it then thats all you need after all one of my favourite cars is a 1979 Oldsmobile 98 Regency is it a classic? probably not are there any left? who knows do i like it? yes and thats all i need db (not a sermon just an observation) |
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10 Jul 2007, 01:17 (Ref:1959215) | #63 | ||
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Michael, something to consider is without the dull, ordinary cars to compare them to, appreciating the qualities of the exceptional cars in context of their era is harder, particularly for people who were not around at the time and don't have any memories of them.
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12 Jul 2007, 09:20 (Ref:1961373) | #64 | ||
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A very astute observation, John. Maybe we should get the forum retitled Classic and Collectors Cars, because then we are catering for everybody who likes or owns old cars regardless of their status..
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13 Jul 2007, 07:02 (Ref:1962142) | #65 | ||
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I don't think it's necessary John, it's a common enough term. Tastes will always vary.
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18 Jul 2007, 07:35 (Ref:1966303) | #66 | ||
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For me, a Classic has always offered almost instant eye appeal: even when young!
For example, neither the XJ range did nor the XJS: the MkI and MK II saloons did and of course do, as did the XK 120, and 150: not the XK 140 as bits of it were ugly! The MK VII and IX did: so did the MK 5. And of course the SS100! The Aston DB I, II and III had instant Classic appeal: so did the DB4 and the 5. Not sure about the brutish uglyness of the current Aston-Ford! In a similar fashion, the Bentley Continental SIII Drophead was probably the peak of classic design: thereafter, Rolls and Bentleys became ugly: The Corniche probably being the ugliest! As are the Silver Shadows Series I and II. The last decent Rolls saloon was I think the Series one single headlight. The two staggered headlights looked awful! And by then the car was loosing its unique "Rollness" and by the time the Shadow was introduced the company was on its knees, anyway, which is why they manufactured it like an upmarket Ford! |
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18 Jul 2007, 11:43 (Ref:1966465) | #67 | ||
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Nothing wrong with Ford is there?
I mean icons such as the Mustang (including the Boss 302), the Cortina Mk1 or indeed the Capri 1969 to 1984. Icons of their age and classics based upon looks, capability and accessibility. |
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18 Jul 2007, 17:46 (Ref:1966710) | #68 | |||
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To me a good example were Jensons. The early 541 was an awful brute! It enjoyed a chassis made from old railway lines and an Austin 6 cyl truck engine, but with three SU carbs. The CV8 was even more ugly! I drove both quite a bot, did lots of work on a 541 and considerably more on a CV8. They were uncomfortable, noisy, didn't handle and didnt go particularly quickly. The Jenson in the pic in the link below, however (the pre-war car) is a good example of what the VSCC call PVTs. The Capri? I remember driving one a few weeks before its release: I had recently left Ford Europe. We had a good laugh at this car! I also remember trying to persuade an early 3 litre to go round corners, instead of straight on............ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen_Motors http://www.chippingnorton.net/Features/vintage.htm |
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18 Jul 2007, 18:37 (Ref:1966757) | #69 | ||
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So in your opinion a car won't qualify as a classic unless it comes from the "doctor's car" class and above. That would exclude many able vehicles.
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18 Jul 2007, 19:58 (Ref:1966840) | #70 | |||
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Whilst I accept that "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", I personally think that "Beauty is more than skin deep". For example, the BMC Nash Metropolitan was a nice little sporty car, in looks, for the girlies. It rusted more rapidly than a Lancia Beta: and they (The Beta), used to well, sort of drop the whole front end in the road, engine, transmission, suspension, steering, brakes! Exciting. The Austin Atlantic was also, on the surface a nice looking car....................... Thus for me, a true classic needs wonderful styling, great engineering, longevity and some character! Mk IV Zephyrs fail to meet the taste test! I spent too long trying to placate owners! |
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19 Jul 2007, 02:05 (Ref:1967043) | #71 | ||
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Ah,
Point taken. Likewise whilst a lot of Lotuses (Loti?) meet the "Classic" criteria I wouldn't give one garage room. |
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19 Jul 2007, 06:38 (Ref:1967128) | #72 | ||
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I agree about Lotus Cars: typical "Chunky" Chapman!
The original Elite, for example, was wetter than a 1930s coupe, through the door seals! The body rattled: the scuttle shook; the gel coat fell off the body and the paint then crazed like the mud when the tide's out! But for their size and capacity they went very quickly in a straight line: and faster than a Ferrari round corners! Until something (else!) broke! or fell off! The only Lotus which ever turned me on was the original MKI two door Cortina; once the rear axle "A" brackets and frames had been hacksawed off and radius arms fitted instead. Which stopped the banjo housing twisting and dumping all the diff oil over the tarmac! And once conical nosed Thrust Bearings had been fitted in the front struts, which stopped them locking and doing "A Jimmie Clark", through quick corners! And................and....................and.............................. Fun though! |
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20 Jul 2007, 19:28 (Ref:1968580) | #73 | ||
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Michael in my post 53 I dared to mention Lotus Elans as crap built cars. I was surprised that I didn't get an ear bashing from the diehards. What always amazed me was the terrific roadholding they had for the day considering a Triumph Herald wasn't exactly the best handling suspension wise. Whatever they are a genuine "Classic" car. I wonder if the old Triumph would have been a gem if they had done away with the thirties transverse leaf spring ?
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Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa ! |
29 Jul 2007, 07:23 (Ref:1975591) | #74 | |
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I think Loti are like TVR's by the time you've rectified all the problems and niggles you may as well put your own badge on the front
as for Cortinas, get a GT, all the good bits of a Lotus without the crap bits, expense and trouble! having said that most of the problems have been sorted after 44 years R&D! |
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31 Jul 2007, 07:31 (Ref:1976914) | #75 | |||
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Any car can become a classic sooner or later, especially when you start realising how few of a once abundant model are left....so we can have classic examples of instant classics, and classic examples of "delayed" classics...like a BMW Isetta... Last edited by henk4; 31 Jul 2007 at 07:41. |
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