Massa to Toyota!?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Gt_R

And i think it's common view now that many under estimated Massa. Not to say he is in MS-class driver, but that he's now seen as a pretty good driver in his own right, and deserved a seat at Ferrari this season.

Mea Culpa. I'm pleasently surprised with him.

Originally Posted by Gt_R

Massa's value now is probably as high as it will realistically be, so why not sell his contract on for a good price. Then, see it rise further as he beat (most likely) his teammates like Trulli, or Ralf.

True.

[MrTTraces]

Whether Massa goes all hinges on what Alonso does.

Granted Alonso's relationship at Mclaren is a bit stale after everything that has gone on but moving to Ferrari....I just can't see it.

He'll have the same problem at Ferrari as he does now at Mclaren, a very good team mate (In Kimi) who'll push him right to the end of the season and he'll just resort to his usual 'throwing his toys out of the pram' tactic.

Still it would be a mouth watering prospect have Kimi and Alonso as team mates at Ferrari.

[chunterer]

Gt_R, like you I have long been one of those who backed Massa as quality even in the face of a fair bit of knocking from others (on and off here!)

I also have little doubt that Todt/Ferrari/whoever was behind the decision to hire him from Sauber in 2002/3 saw a fine driver in the making and simply wanted to hone his skills with Schumi's help - job done on that score!

I actually suspect that Ferrari planned to run Massa as a full time driver before they even picked Kimi, so i'm not surprised that they've not really wanted to support one guy over the other. However I don't think we can doubt that Felipe is very much in the Todt camp (as was Michael) and Kimi is in the Ferrari/LDM Camp.

Hmmm, whoever said there wasn't any silly politics at Ferrari anymore

I can only see Massa leaving if he is forced out, (unlikely) or, something is presented to him that appeals to both him and his manager.

Currently Toyota doesn't fit into that latter category...

[pottiella]

its not really of any discredit to Massa...I mean I personally think he's a good "refined" driver, rather than raw talent, but its all good as it's getting the job done (in what tends to be quite processional races anyway).

Its really, leaving aside personalities etc etc, just looking at "talent" (which is a subjective thing in my opinion) ability and potential contribution as a driver, I can completely understand if Alonso were chosen over Massa, just comparing the two...but massa vs kimi is a seperate debate. It doesn't meant to say Massa isn't thought of as good...just that Alonso is probably better (or more complete) in the view of most within the paddock...?

Anyway, just reading through internet bile today...seems the sections of the Italian press that have caught onto this Alonso/Ferrari (possibly getting rid of Massa) theory, are warming to the idea. One place said, if Alonso becomes available, it would be madness not to engage in it. Again, what the press feel and Ferrari do aren't necessarily co-dependent...but Luca is always thought to have a soft spot for the Italian media.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Don't milk it.

It's not often people think i'm right, i'm gonna milk it whilst i can

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by pottiella

its not really of any discredit to Massa...I mean I personally think he's a good "refined" driver, rather than raw talent, but its all good as it's getting the job done (in what tends to be quite processional races anyway).

Massa has always been quick, just erratic at the beginning of his career but, seldom do you find a rookie that is quick and mistake free. I too stood up for Massa when he was being touted by many as (at best) a possible 1 year fill-in at Ferrari.

I also agree that his worth as an F1 driver is high at the moment, so maybe (if you think of it in those terms) it is not out of the question that he'll end up at Toyota. I hope not though, for his sake.

[mac]

Allegedly, there are four or five options for Alonso:

1) McLaren - Stays with team, Sutil or Glock sign for Toyota and Piquet Jr replaces Fisi. Fisi may or may not end up somewhere else - Williams?

2) Ferrari - Would theoretically result in Massa going to Toyota, and any one of (allegedly) Webber, Rosberg or Button going to McLaren.

3) Renault - Returns to Renault to replace Fisi. The usual suspects (as above) for his McLaren drive, but what about the odds of a swap for Heikki?

4) Red Bull - Unlikely - I wouldn't put too much weight on what Ted Kravitz sees in the paddock - Ralf's manager virtually lived in the BMW hospitality area in Melbourne, and that ain't gonna happen! But it has been mentioned in regard to a swap with Webber.

5) Toyota - Again, highly unlikely. Only really an option because they could afford him - and he might REALLY want a challenge...

[pottiella]

Massa deines ALL...unsurprisingly!

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_6793697.htm

Methinks the lady doth protest too much

At least we know for certain that his contract expires at the end of 2008...

That being the case, I really can see Ferrari pondering over Alonso if he should show availability for 2009 (the more probable solution as some of us said earlier, rather than the more radical switch in 2008 ousting Massa). Todt will likely be edging ever closer to the exit door by then...and everything else follows.

[Skam85]

I like the Webber to McLaren story

[climb]

Originally Posted by Skam85

I like the Webber to McLaren story

Ah that's what I call a surprise! I didn't know you're a Ferrari fan!

[pottiella]

The Kimi speaks...about Alonso/Ferrari rumours:

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40808

"It would interesting to race him in the same car," ...
"But I don't think it is going to happen."

Interesting that he finds it interesting! Given that the man says very little and not much more than he needs to...

As I said, I reckon both drivers would thrive on it, as I think they both see each other as the consistent "best competitors" over the last 4 years...and have drawn a huge amount of respect for each other as a result. We'd all find it as "interesting" as them!

But on the topic of contracts though...notice Fernando says "a year"...whereas he is thought to have a 3 year contract...does that suggest his 3rd year as optional and that he's not looking as far as that 3rd year with McLaren?

At the same time, Massa has stated he has 1 more year too...and of course he's looking to stay on! Just as much as Ralf is looking to stay on at Toyota..doesn't mean to say it will happen...but it still might, if there aren't better options.

I really wouldn't rule out a move for Alonso in 2009, be it Ferrari or BMW..or wherever..but its fairly easy to see if these teams were in the running, Ferrari would be offering the most to him...IF he should stick around in F1 for much longer!

[climb]

I think that as long as Alonso is some way linked to Briatore (and he still is) Ferrari doors will be closed to him.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by pottiella

Interesting that he finds it interesting! Given that the man says very little and not much more than he needs to...

Translating... he said nothing.

[pottiella]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Translating... he said nothing.

I didn't know you liked The Nile so much

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Translating... he said nothing.

Agreed - he's not really giving much away, isn't telling us anything we don't already know (of course seeing him and Alonso as team-mates would be interesting!) and is probably a bit nonplussed by all the Alonso speculation!

[pottiella]

well if anyone else had said it, I would have agreed. I think I just expect Kimi to say even less...its not about him saying what we all think. Kimi tends not to volunteer opinions, even trivial ones...unless asked. I would have just expected him to say "its just talk" and leave it at that, when clearly asked about what's happening. Of course, if he was asked how he would feel about it...then that's another matter altogether, as he wouldn't be volunteering the opinion...it would be a non-issue.

there lies my explanation...