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30 Jan 2010, 19:42 (Ref:2622436) | #51 | ||
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The red Hodgetts Corolla seemed to vary between #67 and #69 depending on who was racing it- As you say, #69 here with Moss, and I think for Tony Dron at Donington later in the year, but #67 at the Oulton 2-driver race with Needell/Hodgetts (with a clearly different-sized 6 & 7 on a pic I've seen).The car was also used at a couple of ETCC/WTCC races, so the team must have spent a fair amount of time peeling race numbers off and replacing them... Other than Hodgetts being in the white Toyota GB car with #66, I'm still not sure which driver raced which CHMS Corolla with which number for a fair part of the '87 BTCC season... |
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16 Feb 2010, 22:18 (Ref:2634648) | #52 | |||
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So at Round 1 we've got Hodgetts in a newly-built white car, Longfield in the red ex-Minshaw/Demon Tweeks car, and Minshaw in the Bagnall WTCC car- I think this might have been Hodgetts' 1986 car, in white |
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21 Feb 2010, 19:34 (Ref:2637826) | #53 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Found a few Motoring News race reports from 1987 which add a little more information for the early rounds- I'll re-list the results in the same table format we've used in the other threads to include the details from these, plus a few more things that turned up through the thread
Round 1- Silverstone, 12 April 1987 15 laps Race supporting the FIA International F3000 Championship
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21 Feb 2010, 19:46 (Ref:2637832) | #54 | ||
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Thanks KA!
Just looking again at the qualifying times for the first 2 on the grid; Rouse's RS Cosworth was nigh on three seconds quicker than Leech's Vitesse - a substantial advantage that strangely wasn't replicated in the race, where Dennis was seemingly much more competitive as the two endulged in quite a scrap for most of the distance IIRC? Dare one suggest that Rouse was 'taking it easy' in this cars debut, or had the Devonian simply got a better set up for the race? Dave Carvell also had a good run, but he didn't seem to go as well again until later in the season. May need to revisit his posts in the Vitesse thread to refesh our memories as to how he felt his season went with this car. Last edited by chunterer; 21 Feb 2010 at 20:26. |
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21 Feb 2010, 20:25 (Ref:2637850) | #55 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Round 2- Oulton Park , Good Friday, 17 April 1987 14 laps
According to Motoring News, Martin Birrane was originally entered in a Hodgetts Corolla, but withdrew. Chuck Nicholson and Alan Minshaw both qualified the car in his place, and the decision that Nicholson would race was only made on race morning! Alex Moss missed official practice on the Thursday and qualified his CHMS Corolla out of session on Friday. Rob Kirby also arrived on Friday and qualified out of session- the team had still been finishing the Alfa right up to the the point of leaving for Oulton... The race was apparently originally scheduled for only 12 laps, until it was pointed out that this distance was too short to qualify it as a points-scoring race under the Championship regs- it was then- apparently reluctantly, in light of the sparse entry- increased to 14 laps. MN commented 'A similar-sized Thundersports field is OK for 40 laps of course, but the BTCC just isn't flavour of the month at the moment' They also commented on the small entry- described as a 'forlorn' 11 cars, boosted by 3 Friday morning arrivals: 'a great shame, as if all those who do have eligible cars were to turn out, then there would be precious little cause for complaint' and 'The cars are out there somewhere. If only they can all be persuaded to turn up in the same place, at the same time, then we may get somewhere' Last edited by KA; 21 Feb 2010 at 20:44. |
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21 Feb 2010, 21:32 (Ref:2637890) | #56 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Round 3- Thruxton , Easter Monday, 20 April 1987 14 laps
MN's reporter wasn't too impressed by this one: 'Perhaps the BARC's results sheet said it all about the third round of the Dunlop British Touring CarChampionship with the line 'No race incidents were reported' It was a race of little change and a great deal of tedium for the paying spectator' Probably not much in the MN report that Jesper hasn't already posted from Autosport's version of events- a few extra notes: After the Oulton engine problems, Mike O'Brien had an old engine in the VK- a unit used by Grice in the Estoril ETCC round the previous autumn. He was also in all kinds of trouble with the big Holden's handling in qualifying- the springs were changed for the race. Pretty much everyone seemed to be in trouble with tyres- winner Leech deciding to drive a careful race and try to look after the tyres as much as possible. Harvey, Carvell, Newman, O'Brien, Hall and Dooley are all mentioned as suffering from tyre problems- Harvey's leading to retirement The Alfas apparently weren't running in the new Evolution spec in these early races, the report comments that the team were waiting for more parts from Italy, including spare engines and the full body kit. Dooley was running with very low boost in an attempt to preserve the turbo- the team not having a spare. Did Kirby's car make the trip after the Oulton engine failure? MN refer to Dooley as the 'sole' Alfa CHMS were playing 'Musical Corollas' again, a spot of car swapping needed after Hodgetts damaged his intended mount following a puncture in the first qualifying session. He then took over the car intended for Paul Longfield (whose deal to drive the car had only been arranged the previous day) Paul then took over the third car, originally intended for Alex Moss. I think Chris raced the older of the two white cars, while Longfield raced the red ex-Minshaw chassis.... Both Renaults also took part in the R5 Cup race- Saunders only ran the (slower) first session of BTCC qualifying, so started from the back of the grid. Grimshaw finished 11th to win the class, but was disqualified for having the wrong size of fire extinguisher in the car Last edited by chunterer; 22 Feb 2010 at 11:09. |
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21 Feb 2010, 22:34 (Ref:2637929) | #57 | |||
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I believe the car went to Mike Devine, who wrote it off in the middle of '89 in a Slick 50 road saloon race. Earlier that season it finished 2nd in the first long circuit race I ever saw. I have a big soft spot for the Mk1 and Mk2 Astras (I would love to know more about the Mk1 GTE in BTCC '84 or '85) and to find that the Devine and Harmer cars were one and the same, iirc, made it one car I wanted to track down. I was very disappointed to find it was no more - unless it's in pieces somewhere, still! |
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26 Feb 2010, 19:33 (Ref:2641101) | #58 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Round 4- Thruxton , Easter Monday, 20 April 1987 16 laps
20 cars turned up at Thruxton, though only 17 would start in the end... Seemingly as ever, tyres would be an issue at Thruxton, several drivers having tyre wear problems Jesper has already given the story of the race, but a few additional details from MN's report: Tim Harvey commented that finishing 2nd wasn't ideal, but 'if there's only Andy Rouse ahead of you, you're not doing badly' Peter Hall had a spin at the chicane in the race, as well as being troubled with a misfire. (the report has a pic of the ICS Sierra pointing the wrong way as Dowsett's Escort goes past) Kirby's turbo failure in the Alfa was described as due to a broken intercooler pipe. He claimed he'd qualified on a set of tyres found lying around the workshop 'I think they're from 1985' Geoff Kimber-Smith fancied his chances for the class win from the start, as 'I knew my tyres would outlast those that Chris had on' Hodgetts had flown back for the race after finishing 8th o/a and 3nd in class in the Anderstop ETCC race the previous day- describing the Swedish outing as 'the hardest race of my life' - his efforts to claw back a 45 second lead built up by the class-winning Fina Corolla being hampered by a combination of tyre wear, hot weather, and fumes leaking into the Corolla from a broken exhaust after co-driver Andrew Bagnall had a trip across the grass earlier in the race....He'd been within 15 seconds when a puncture dropped the CHMS car to 3rd late in the race Graham Goode's Cosworth was 'basically fine, but just needs sorting' - Graham complaining of a lack of test mileage for the Listerine Sierra- 'Every time I take it somewhere, we get rained on' Phil Dowsett missed the second qualifying session for a gearbox change. In the race, he started the green flag lap from the pitlane, after picking up a puncture on the warm up lap- he then had to pit for tyres in the race Mike O'Brien was unhappy with the handling of the Commodore, but the team couldn't put a finger on what was causing the problem Bill Griffin was treating the debut of the ex-Schlesser Marlboro Rover as a test session- the car only finished at midnight on Friday, and according to Bill 'at the moment, it handles like a threepenny bit!' Two additional Renaults appeared in qualifying, the cars of David Gibson and David Martell. Neither would start the race, the drivers opting to save their cars for the Renault Turbo cup race which followed the BTCC round One oddity of the race report- as we've seen before, Autosport and MN's reports don't always agree. In this case, the race is listed as 16 laps, but the results table only credits Crudgington, Saunders and Dowsett with 13 laps in the race... I'm assuming a misprint, although the report says that Dowsett finished 'three laps down after a stop to change rubber' A few bits from the news pages- mostly possible entries that wouldn't happen: Motorcycle racer Steve Parrish had tested a CHMS Corolla at Silverstone, and was a possibility to do a few races later in the season- Chris Hodgetts said it all depended on Parrish's Yamaha commitments- Presumably these got in the way... Gerrit van Kouwen hoped to line up a BMW M3 drive for the GP support race- he wasn't yet sure which team it would be with... Jeff Allam was hoping to put together a deal to run a Rover at the GP,though it depended on finding sponsors- 'Tom has agreed to allow me the use of a Rover for the GP, and I'm on the lookout for some money' Rallying news- Australian privateer Rex Muldoon was due to start a programme of European events, with the aim of qualifying for a FISA B-seeding by the end of the season. He will drive a Ford Sierra Cosworth, prepared and backed by his own company, API Motorsport. This is presumably the car he would use at the final BTCC round Last edited by KA; 26 Feb 2010 at 19:51. |
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26 Feb 2010, 20:56 (Ref:2641151) | #59 | ||
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Lots of details helping to flesh out the '87 season some more. Thank you, KA, and please keep the updates flowing.
13 laps for Dowsett after a tyre change seems reasonable. Just rechecked the Autosport report that says 15. Jesper |
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26 Feb 2010, 22:23 (Ref:2641194) | #60 | |||
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Was this result actually from the Whitsun meeting KA? Re the oither news, I wonder what, (or whose) M3 Gerrit planned on pedalling. I doubt it could've been the Prodrive car as that was always down for Sytner to drive, unless he was pinning hopes on driving one of their rally cars. Perhaps he was investigating hiring a works car from Schnitzer or Linder? The Allam story was always interesting. The story was rumoured on several ocassions yet it never happened. I have suspicions that one reason it never appeared was that in all likelihood a late model TWR Vitesse with Allam at the wheel would've beaten the 'hac'k Commodore, even with Walkinshaw at the wheel. We'll never know because neither car showed up. The other reason might have been that the Rover was either sold by the time the BGP came along and/or Allam wasn't able to find the money referred to in his quote. |
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26 Feb 2010, 22:47 (Ref:2641207) | #61 | |||
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Jesper Last edited by chunterer; 28 Feb 2010 at 17:10. |
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26 Feb 2010, 23:22 (Ref:2641220) | #62 | ||
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Last edited by chunterer; 28 Feb 2010 at 17:10. |
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27 Feb 2010, 10:24 (Ref:2641369) | #63 | |||
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Granted KA, I guess the Holden Nurby outing was possibly a last minute decision. Maybe only after Jeff couldn't raise the money to run the Vitesse for the weekend at Silverstone, so maybe Tom decided to invite Jeff to join him in Germany instead? |
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27 Feb 2010, 10:59 (Ref:2641387) | #64 | |||
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Look at about 3/4 down the page. I have seen a glimpse of this car somewhere, which definitively was dated to 1987. Jesper Last edited by Jesper OH; 27 Feb 2010 at 11:04. |
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27 Feb 2010, 11:12 (Ref:2641398) | #65 | |||
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In 1988 it was resprayed white IIRC, unless that was a new car. |
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27 Feb 2010, 11:45 (Ref:2641410) | #66 | ||
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http://www.bmwe21.net/temp/dedem2.jpg |
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28 Feb 2010, 17:08 (Ref:2642019) | #67 | |||
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IIRC it was giving the Prodrive cars a bit of a hard time as best of the rest M3's begind the German entred cars at Donington! |
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28 Feb 2010, 18:11 (Ref:2642060) | #68 | ||
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http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...Donington.html |
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6 Mar 2010, 09:18 (Ref:2645991) | #69 | ||||
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I've got a funny feeling he was the name linked to a sporadic BMW works BTCC outing either in '87 or '88 as well?!! Think there might have been a rumour about a Schnitzer BGP entry. Might be way off beam on that though? Also the post in the 86 BTCC thread about the 1986 Grice ETC Commodore advert is significant Quote:
Last edited by chunterer; 6 Mar 2010 at 09:31. |
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9 Mar 2010, 15:12 (Ref:2648228) | #70 | ||
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Hockenheim is where the original VK got badly pranged after the hectic dice with the Volvo's, so the obious question is, if this car was rebuilt and stayed over here after all, did this car become the O Brien '87 BTCC entry or was it sold elsewhere? O'Brien's car in 1987 was the ex Grice 1986 ETC car. See http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...lden+Commodore |
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9 Mar 2010, 19:06 (Ref:2648428) | #71 | |||
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10 Mar 2010, 10:49 (Ref:2648805) | #72 | ||
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There certainly was a second Roadways car, the 'Chickadee' car that Grice shared with Graham Bailey at Bathurst, but I didn't think that left Australia? |
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10 Mar 2010, 11:06 (Ref:2648820) | #73 | |||
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Alfie can you tell us whether there were one or two cars? |
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10 Mar 2010, 11:46 (Ref:2648841) | #74 | ||
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I think the primary problem of the '86 Grice VK to '87 Docking VK is differing reports of what happened pre and post Hockenheim '86. Some reports suggests that the car was a write off at Hockenheim, but it seems that the car was rebuild and put into action later in the '86 ETCC, although described as not being as crisp as before. It then stayed at its 1986 base at Alan Docking Racing in Britain to end up as the '87 BTCC car of Mike O'Brien. That is my current understanding.
Jesper |
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10 Mar 2010, 14:02 (Ref:2648915) | #75 | ||
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Complicated by a later season preview in the usually reliable Autosport saying that O'Brien tested one Commodore and then raced another - the tested car remaining un-raced in BTCC.
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