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20 Apr 2011, 18:31 (Ref:2867125) | #51 | ||
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Here's a thought. Think back to two of the best seasons in recent years, namely 2007 and 2009. What did they have in common? No equivalency issues. 08 we had the Seat TDis, 10 we had the LPG Fords and before that we had the constant bickering between the S2000 Seats and the BTC Spec teams.
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21 Apr 2011, 13:29 (Ref:2867513) | #52 | |
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As expected the turbo cars have been pegged back to 1.7 bars for Thruxton. Good news.
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21 Apr 2011, 13:43 (Ref:2867520) | #53 | ||
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Probably is good news. I guess there will always have to be tweeks to keep things level, as we have seen in previous seasons.
However, if Plato had not finished all 3 races in Donnington around the place he qualified, he would probably be leading the championship by some margin in his "slow" NA car. I suppose the unique nature of Brands Indy hid the turbo advantage to some extent. |
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21 Apr 2011, 14:39 (Ref:2867550) | #54 | |
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21 Apr 2011, 15:30 (Ref:2867577) | #55 | ||
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Yes but...
To a certain extent, the tyres are becoming a limiting factor. They can't handle a full race distance with the power of the turbo engines. So, a bit like the current F1 season, there's a bit of a tortoise & hare situation here. One thing's for sure, as long as there are differences allowed, there will be whingeing and whining from all sides when they consider that anyone else has an advantage, despite whatever equivalency factors are used. |
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21 Apr 2011, 16:14 (Ref:2867605) | #56 | ||
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Have you been watching the last 6 races ? Tyres seem fine to me. The only turbo car with issues was Andy Jordons at Brands. And he said both on car to pit radio and after the races he got punctures from either contact or curb riding. |
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21 Apr 2011, 16:18 (Ref:2867606) | #57 | ||
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I doubt .1 bar will make much difference. Take it down by .3 then maybe you might see some effect.
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21 Apr 2011, 17:36 (Ref:2867654) | #58 | |||
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The Civics are having to restrict their brake usage to ensure they last a full race distance, hence the reason that turbo cars have not disappeared into the distance when leading (usually). Admittedly this might be a bit of 'mind-games', but as long as NA drivers are complaining about top end speed disadvantage, then turbo drivers can complain about brake and tyre disadvantages. Why should any team that has fully, or partially, transferred to the new set of regulations be put at a disadvantage against teams running 2-3 year old cars, built to a previously used set of regulations for use in a championship run by a different governing body? |
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21 Apr 2011, 20:35 (Ref:2867769) | #59 | |||
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A and B segments: 1. Fiesta 4. Corsa 6. Polo 7. 207 9. Mini 12. Clio 17. 500 20. Jazz 21. i10 24. Yaris C segment 2. Astra 3. Focus 5. Golf 13. 1 Series 14. A3 19. Mégane 23. 308 28. Civic D segment: 8. 3 Series 11. Insignia 16. Mondeo 18. C Class 22. E Class 25. Passat 27. A4 Most of the bestselling big saloons are German. Makes from other countries sell mostly A, B and C segment cars. It's no surprise that many of them prefer C segment cars as racing cars to promote their brands. |
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21 Apr 2011, 20:38 (Ref:2867772) | #60 | |||
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The teams running S2000 NA machinery entered on the basis that they would be running on an equal footing this year, having been promised this by the organiser. The turbo cars are being pegged back in an attempt to restore equality. I don't see what the problem is... |
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22 Apr 2011, 10:08 (Ref:2868030) | #61 | ||
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Yes, turbo does give a speed advantage, but it also brings a tyre/brake wear disadvantage. Every car will have strengths and weaknesses over other types, I feel that the turbo cars are having their advantages restricted, while still having to carry the disadvantage.
Comparing results so far, the NA cars had the upper hand at Brands, turbo at Donington. The next track obviously favours cars with higher top speed, will the NA cars have equalisation measures imposed at tracks such as Knockhill? |
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22 Apr 2011, 14:20 (Ref:2868159) | #62 | ||
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Yep, reducing their boost is fine, but as a sweetner, they should offer them a slightly lower weight limit, so say you can lose 10-20kg. Lets face it, where they excel is down the straights, and where they lose out, is in the corners. So peg them back a bit on the straights (lower boost) but give them a slight weight break (better in corners).
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22 Apr 2011, 14:33 (Ref:2868162) | #63 | ||
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Why do they lose out in the corners? The restriction imposed seems entirely reasonable, although Thruxton will demonstrate whether they got it right.
Last edited by Alfa Fan; 22 Apr 2011 at 14:51. Reason: sp |
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22 Apr 2011, 15:16 (Ref:2868175) | #64 | ||
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22 Apr 2011, 16:33 (Ref:2868206) | #65 | ||
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Thruxton should be very interesting to watch how this will pan out who looks after their tyres throughout the weekend. |
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22 Apr 2011, 18:06 (Ref:2868266) | #66 | |||
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27 Apr 2011, 14:02 (Ref:2870620) | #67 | ||
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According to Matt Neal on the Honda Racing facebook page, the Civics are going to have their boost restricted further than the other turbo cars.
I've got no problem with the overall reduction in boost for the NGTC engines, however it seems a bit unfair to single out one particular engine built to the same rules as everyone else because Neil Brown has done a good job... |
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27 Apr 2011, 14:21 (Ref:2870629) | #68 | ||
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Be nice to see a Volvo Estate on the grid again(now that is a 'touring' car)
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27 Apr 2011, 15:38 (Ref:2870683) | #69 | |||
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If this is the case, were the Hondas running less boost in order to meet a certain bhp limit? |
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27 Apr 2011, 15:42 (Ref:2870686) | #70 | ||
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Yep, just read Alan's comments. All a bit odd, given that Shedden got sent to the back for exceeding the 1.8 bar boost limit in race one at Donington.
Unless the team turned it down for the other races rather than risk that happening again, and then that's the level that TOCA have worked from for the boost reduction? |
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27 Apr 2011, 17:37 (Ref:2870747) | #71 | ||
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The Civics ran with lower boost levels in qualifying compared to race trim, so their new limit is based on a lower starting point. |
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1 May 2011, 15:50 (Ref:2872449) | #72 | ||
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With regards to the equalisation, the agreement was that the the fastest NA car will have equal performance to the fastest turbo.
Results have seen Ford, Honda and Vauxhall sharing honours amongst the turbos, whereas Plato has been head and shoulders above all the other NA cars. The equalisation would therefore see that whichever turbo driver perfoms the best, Plato will automatically be given equal performance - surely this would be favouring one driver over others? |
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1 May 2011, 22:34 (Ref:2872630) | #73 | ||
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"British Touring Car Championship organiser TOCA has today announced that following full analysis of technical data and taking into consideration other relevant results/information, the new maximum boost limit for all turbocharged cars in the series will be 0.1 bar lower than that recorded by each car on the TOCA Performance Monitoring Device (Logger) during qualifying and rounds four, five and six at Donington Park" |
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1 May 2011, 22:56 (Ref:2872637) | #74 | ||
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We know that the data logger on Shedden's car recorded 1.88 (i.e. over the previous 1.8 limit) in one of the races as he was DQ'd for that reason. |
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2 May 2011, 09:48 (Ref:2872802) | #75 | ||
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So your saying the organisers just lied when they put out the official notification to all the teams about how much boost they were all running during qualifying and all the races and what their new limit is, but instead you rather believe one team?! Fantastic conspiracy theory. Maybe you think Elvis is still alive? |
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