Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Motorsport History


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 24 Jul 2010, 10:13 (Ref:2731617)   #61
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 13,325
chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!
Pretty sure it was the GP circuit. The Indy layout only came onto the BTCC calendar in about 1987 IIRC.
chunterer is offline  
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?"
"No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!"
Quote
Old 24 Jul 2010, 17:18 (Ref:2731726)   #62
Tim Wilkinson
Veteran
 
Tim Wilkinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
England
Essex
Posts: 782
Tim Wilkinson should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Updated from Autosport. I'm afraid I don't know the order of class C after the top 6, or where Dooley fnished overall after rejoining from the pits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KA View Post
Round 10: Brands Hatch. 29 August 1983 20 laps (GP circuit), 52.28 miles

PosClass#DriverTeam/EntrantSponsorCarClassGridQual time (session)LapsRace TimeFastest lapNotes
113Peter LovettTWRSanyoRover VitesseA31:39.74 (2)2033m42.16s1:39.77 (94.31mph) 
224Steve SoperTWRHepoliteRover VitesseA11:39.39 (2)2033m54.84s Dead-heat on time
3320Hans-Joachim StuckBS AutomotiveCheylesmoreBMW 635CSiA21:39.43 (2)2033m54.84s Dead heat on time
442Jeff AllamTWRSanyoRover VitesseA41:39.97 (1)2034m02.47s  
55?Gordon SpiceMartin Thomas Rover VitesseA61:40.20 (2)2034m09.07s  
6611Tony LanfranchiCCGM Dealer SportOpel MonzaA91:41.96 (2)2034m32.24s  
7710Charles Sawyer-HoareMartin Thomas?Esso+Daily MirrorRover VitesseA111:42.21 (2)2034m35.28s  
8134Andy RouseRouseICSAlfa Romeo GTV6B101:42.13 (2)2034m43.04s  
9230Hamish IrvineIrvine Mazda RX7B141.:42.60 (2)2034m59.19s  
108?Brian ChatfieldChatfield Ford Capri 3.0SA151:44.09 (1)2035m24.98s  
              
?331Jon DooleyARDTNapolinaAlfa Romeo GTV6B131:42.57 (2)   Pitted with plug lead problems
              
?169Chris HodgettsBrooklyn Ford Escort RS1600iC201:45.55 (2)    
?272Rob HallMaguireLloyds of StaffordFord Escort RS1600iC171:44.76 (2) (87.87mph)  
?366Alan CurnowLongmanDatapostFord Escort RS1600iC191:45.10 (2)   fastest lap Class C
?486Alan MinshawMinshawDemon TweeksVW Golf GTiC221:45.93 (2)    
 5 Alan Greenhaigh  VW Golf GTIC251:47.91 (2)    
?677Richard LongmanLongmanDatapostFord Escort RS1600iC181:45.02 (1)   Pitted on lap 1 to reconnect plug lead to dizzy
??60John Morris  VW Scirocco GTIC211:45.85 (1)   Blistered front tyre
?? Rob Kirby  Alfa Romeo Alfasud TiC231:47.27 (1)    
              
DNFDNF1Win PercyHughesToyota GBToyota Celica SupraA71:40.62 (2)   damaged suspension after contact with Brodie's Starion
DNFDNF35Tony PondDowsonUnipartMG Metro TurboB81:41.08 )1)  1m41.79soil cooler fastest lap Class B
DNFDNF36Patrick WattsDowsonUnipartMG Metro TurboB121:42.26   head gasket
DNFDNF18Dave BrodieBBWColt Cars Mid-WestMitsubishi Starion TurboA51:40.15 (1)19  tyre
DNFDNF Andrew ThorpeAlfa Romeo Alfasud TiC241:47.75 (2)      
DNFDNF Geoff Kimber-SmithToyota CorollaC261:51.48 (2)      
DNSDNS Mike Newman  3.0 Ford CapriA161:44.54 (1)   Accident in 2nd qual

Qualifying - overcast both sessions

Last edited by Tim Wilkinson; 24 Jul 2010 at 17:23.
Tim Wilkinson is offline  
__________________
If you want to get a hat, get a head.
Quote
Old 27 Dec 2010, 18:55 (Ref:2808848)   #63
Frank de Jong
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Netherlands
Amsterdam
Posts: 312
Frank de Jong should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridFrank de Jong should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I've just started to work on the 1983 BSCC, and while it will take a month or two before it will be on the site I'm happy to inform you that I have complete results and grid positions on round 1.
Of course, I will make good use of all the work that has gone into this thread (and thanks for that)!
Frank de Jong is offline  
__________________
Frank de Jong
Quote
Old 29 Dec 2010, 13:24 (Ref:2809190)   #64
Frank de Jong
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Netherlands
Amsterdam
Posts: 312
Frank de Jong should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridFrank de Jong should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by KA View Post
A couple of questions, based on what we know of the results for the two Donington rounds and a couple of pics I've got.

We've identified a few Toyota Corolla entries over the season, but none of them seem to have been regular- they all appear in a couple of rounds at most.
  • Andy Driver at the first Thruxton round. All I know about him is that I've seen a pic on the Autosport Nostalgia forum a while ago of him in a Golf GTi with sponsorship by 'Wokingham Sports Cars' from a 1981 BTCC round (Oulton I think)

Any offers?
Form Motoring news, it is said that "Andy Driver in the RZ Racing Toyota Corolla that was originally raced by the late John Tait" - he decided not to start after being the slowest qualifier.
Frank de Jong is offline  
__________________
Frank de Jong
Quote
Old 29 Dec 2010, 13:52 (Ref:2809201)   #65
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 13,325
chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank de Jong View Post
Form Motoring news, it is said that "Andy Driver in the RZ Racing Toyota Corolla that was originally raced by the late John Tait" - he decided not to start after being the slowest qualifier.
On the subject of this 'driver' i've often wondered if the name 'Andy Driver' was in fact a non-de-plume or something? There were a fair few drivers of the period who didn't use their real names for one reason or another?

Can anyone confirm at all?
chunterer is offline  
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?"
"No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!"
Quote
Old 29 Dec 2010, 14:23 (Ref:2809210)   #66
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank de Jong View Post
I've just started to work on the 1983 BSCC, and while it will take a month or two before it will be on the site I'm happy to inform you that I have complete results and grid positions on round 1.
Of course, I will make good use of all the work that has gone into this thread (and thanks for that)!
As always with your updates, Frank, I will look out for it. Good to hear you have some updates to the previously covered material on this thread - and now to be collected in a more easily overwieved format not least!

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Aug 2011, 14:51 (Ref:2939517)   #67
KA
Veteran
 
KA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,321
KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!
Another Flickr discovery- Before the Celica Supra was homologated, Win Percy made a one-off appearance in the first round at Silverstone with his 1982 Corolla, winning the 1600cc class
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...one%20Int.html


A pic of the Corolla in the paddock at Silverstone, carrying race #80
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12078476@N07/5133221974/
KA is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Aug 2011, 09:09 (Ref:2942004)   #68
ART Racing
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Australia
Toowoomba, QLD
Posts: 65
ART Racing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
1983 BSCC

An interesting read, haven't been on here for a while. As far as Win and the Celica Supra goes - the car wasn't homologated until 1 Aug 1983 so I have always wondered why it was allowed to compete before that time - perhaps there was some rule over there about being able to compete provisionally once the paperwork had been submitted?

I think the race at the Silverstone GP in July was its first, not surprised it was listed as a DNS prior to that time. There also seems to have been some 'homologation creep' in other areas; car 2 comes out at some stage in 1984 with flares when they aren't homologated until 1 Aug 1985.

As far as I know Arden Conversions did do all the mechanical work on the cars: they certainly built the engines, the cam profiles were theirs and so was the injection/induction work on the cars. I don't know the workshare split between HOB and AC.

John
HOB Celica Supra Group A #1.
ART Racing is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Aug 2011, 12:03 (Ref:2942039)   #69
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 13,325
chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!chunterer has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ART Racing View Post
As far as I know Arden Conversions did do all the mechanical work on the cars: they certainly built the engines, the cam profiles were theirs and so was the injection/induction work on the cars. I don't know the workshare split between HOB and AC.

John
HOB Celica Supra Group A #1.
Yes that's how I remember it, the late Jim Whitehouse had a shop in Henley in Arden and also in Pershore at some point I think

Hughes were only the sponsor/entrant and keeper of the cars IIRC....

It's interesting that the main industrial estate in Pershore must've had a pretty big touring car preparation scene because Ted Grace, Chris Hodgetts, Arden and I think Andy Rouse and one or two others were all based there at some point or another I think. Last time I went through it, the Dynamics Honda BTCC team was there.
chunterer is offline  
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?"
"No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!"
Quote
Old 17 Aug 2011, 22:18 (Ref:2942276)   #70
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by KA View Post
Thanks Tim, that fills in some gaps for this one. Watts having collided with a spinning Thorpe Alfasud makes sense- although AFAIK the actual incident isn't seen on the video, the damage on the Metro is all to the front, whereas the Alfasud seems to have taken a hit in the right-hand side

Just tracked down another old report, from the Feb '84 issue of Performance Car- this is a season review article, titled 'Season of Discontent', much of which is taken up with the sorry saga of the various protests. I'll come back to that later, but for now a provisional points table might be useful (bear in mind that this was published early in '84, and is described as 'subject to protests'....)

Class A

1- Steve Soper (Rover Vitesse) 68
2- Peter Lovett (Rover Vitesse) 62
3- Jeff Allam (Rover Vitesse) 53
4- Tony Lanfranchi (Opel Monza) 17
5- Charles Sawyer-Hoare (Rover Vitesse) 16
6- Frank Sytner (BMW 635CSi) 13
7- Hans Stuck (BMW 635CSi) 12
8- Mike Newman (Ford Capri) 9
=9- Dennis Leech (Rover Vitesse) 5
=9- Win Percy (Toyota Celica Supra) 5
=9- Gordon Spice (Rover Vitesse) 5
12- Dave Brodie (Colt Starion) 4
13- Graham Goode (Ford Capri) 3
14- Jonathan Palmer (BMW 635CSi) 2

Class B

1- Andy Rouse (Alfa GTV6) 61
2- Hamish Irvine (Mazda RX7) 42
3- Jon Dooley (Alfa GTV6) 36
4- Tony Pond (MG Metro Turbo) 31
5- Patrick Watts (MG Metro Turbo) 7
=6- Tom Dodd-Noble (Mazda RX7) 3
=6- Terry Nightingale (Mazda RX7) 3
8- Martin Brundle (MG Metro Turbo) 2

Class C

1- Alan Minshaw (VW Golf GTi) 45
2- Chris Hodgetts (Ford Escort RS1600i) 43
3- Alan Curnow (Ford Escort RS1600i) 42
4- Richard Longman (Ford Escort RS1600i) 35
5- John Morris (VW Scirocco GTi) 31
6- Rob Hall (Ford Escort RS1600i) 22
7- Rob Kirby (Alfasud) 18
8- Alan Greenghalgh (VW Golf GTi) 17
=9- Win Percy (Toyota Corolla) 9
=9- Patrick Watts (MG Metro 1300) 9
11- Andrew Thorpe (Alfasud) 5
12- Richard Lloyd (VW Golf GTi) 3
13- Lionel Abbott (Ford Escort RS1600i) 2
=14- Jock Robertson (Ford Escort RS1600i) 1
=14- Jock Robertson (Ford Fiesta 1.6) 1

Manufacturers

1- Rover Vitesse (A) 81
=2- Alfa Romeo GTV6 (B) 72
=2- Ford Escort RS1600i (C) 72
4- VW Golf GTi (C) 51
5- Mazda RX7 (B) 40
6- MG Metro Turbo (B) 29
7- VW Scirocco GTi (C) 28
8- BMW 635CSi (A) 21
9- Alfa Romeo Alfasud (C) 20
10- Opel Monza (A) 16
11- Ford Capri (A) 12
=12- Toyota Corolla (C) 9
=12- MG Metro 1300 (C) 9
14- Toyota Celica Supra (A) 5
15- Ford Fiesta (C) 1
Thanks to Frank de Jong's presentation of the results, I have these point tables for classes A, B and C and the manufactures.

Pos. Driver Cl. Car Points R01 R02 R03 R04 R05 R06 R07 R08 R09 R10 R11
NC Steve Soper A Rover Vitesse 68 9 1 4 - 2 1 9 1 - - 9 1 DNF - 9 1 9 - 6 - 6 -
NC Pete Lovett A Rover Vitesse 62 (63) 4 - 6 - 9 - DNF - 9 - 6 - 9 - 6 - DNF 1 9 1 3 -
2. Jeff Allam A Rover Vitesse 53 6 - 9 1 6 - 6 - 6 1 DNF - DNF 1 4 - DNF - 3 - 9 1
13. Tony Lanfranchi A Opel Monza 17 DNF - 3 - 3 - - - 2 - 2 - 4 - [7] - 1 - 1 - 1 -
15. Charles Sawyer-Hoare A Rover Vitesse 16 3 - DNS - 4 - DNF - 4 - 3 - 2 - [8] - DNF - [7] - DNF -
18. Frank Sytner A BMW 635CSi 13 - - - - - - - - - - 4 - 6 - 3 - DNF - - - DNF -
19. Hans-Joachim Stuck A BMW 635CSi 12 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2 - 6 - 4 - - -
20. Mike Newman A Ford Capri 9 2 - 2 - - - - - - - - - 3 - [9] - 2 - DNS - - -
21. Dennis Leech A Rover Vitesse 5 - - - - - - 4 - DNF - DNF - 1 - DNF - - - - - - -
17. Win Percy A Toyota Celica Supra 5 - - - - - - NC - DNS - - - - - 1 - 4 - DNF - DNF -
21. Gordon Spice A Rover Vitesse 5 - - - - - - - - - - DNF - - - [12] - 3 - 2 - - -
24. Dave Brodie A Mitsubishi Colt ST 4 - - - - - - - - - - DNF - [7] - [10] - DNF - DNF - 4 -
25. Graham Goode A Ford Capri 3 DNF - - - - - - - 3 - - - DNF - DNF - - - - - - -
29. Jonathan Palmer A BMW 635CSi 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2 -
NC Brian Chatfield A Ford Capri 0 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [8] - [7] -
NC Mark Hales A Ford Capri 0 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [11] - - - - - - -

Pos. Driver Cl. Car Points R01 R02 R03 R04 R05 R06 R07 R08 R09 R10 R11
1. Andy Rouse B Alfa Romeo GTV6 61 - - - - - - 9 1 9 1 6 1 9 1 DNF - 6 - 9 - 9 -
5. Hamish Irvine B Mazda RX-7 42 6 1 4 - 4 1 6 - 4 - - - 4 - 6 - DNF - 6 - DNF -
7. Jon Dooley B Alfa Romeo GTV6 36 DNF - 6 1 6 - 4 - DNF - DNF - DNF - 9 - DNF - 4 - 6 -
9. Tony Pond B MG Metro Turbo 31 - - - - - - DNF - 6 - DNF - 6 - 2 1 9 1 DNF 1 4 1
15. Patrick Watts B MG Metro Turbo 7 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 4 - DNF - DNF - 3 -
25. Terry Nightingale B Mazda RX-7 3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 3 - - - - - - -
25. Tom Dodd-Noble B Mazda RX-7 3 - - - - - - 3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
29. Martin Brundle B MG Metro Turbo 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2 -
NC Pete Hall B Alfa Romeo GTV6 0 DNF - [3] - [3] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Pos. Driver Cl. Car Points R01 R02 R03 R04 R05 R06 R07 R08 R09 R10 R11
3. Alan Minshaw C VW Golf GTi 45 (48) 2 - 3 - 4 - 6 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 6 1 9 1 3 - DNF 1
4. Chris Hodgetts C Ford Escort RSi 43 [7] - 1 - 2 - DNF - 3 - 9 - DNF - 4 - 6 - 9 - 9 -
5. Alan Curnow C Ford Escort RSi 42 4 - ? - DNF - 9 - 9 - DNF - 3 - 3 - 3 - 4 1 6 -
8. Richard Longman C Ford Escort RSi 35 DNF 1 6 - ? 1 2 - 6 1 DNF - DNF - 9 - 4 - 1 - 4 -
9. John Morris C VW Scirocco GTi 31 DNF - 9 1 [7] - 4 1 DNF - 6 - 9 1 DNF - DNF - [7] - [7] -
11. Rob Hall C Ford Escort RSi 22 3 - 4 - DNF - DNF - DNF - DNF 1 6 - 2 - DNF - 6 - DNF -
12. Rob Kirby C Alfa Romeo Alfasud 18 DNF - 2 - 6 - 3 - DNS - 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - DNF - DNF -
13. Alan Greenhalgh C VW Golf GTi 17 6 - ? - 9 - [7] - [7] - - - [7] - DNF - - - 2 - - -
17. Win Percy C Toyota Corolla GT 9 9 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
15. Patrick Watts C MG Metro 1300 9 - - ? - 3 - 1 - 2 - 3 - DNF - - - - - - - - -
21. Andrew Thorpe C Alfa Romeo Alfasud 5 DNF - ? - 1 - [8] - DNF - 1 - DNF - [7] - 1 - DNF - 2 -
25. Richard Lloyd C VW Golf GTi 3 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 3 -
29. Lionel Abbott C Ford Escort RSi 2 - - DNS - DNF - DNS - 1 - - - 1 - - - - - - - - -
29. Jock Robertson C Ford Fiesta XR2 1 1 - ? - DNF - DNF - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
29. Jock Robertson C Ford Escort RSi 1 - - - - - - - - - - DNS - DNS - DNF - DNF - - - 1 -
NC Geoff Kimber-Smith C Toyota Corolla GT 0 - - - - - - - - - - [7] - [8] - DNS - [7] - DNF - DNF -
NC Terry Watts C Talbot Sunbeam TI 0 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [8] - DNF - - - - -
NC Tony Crudgington C Toyota Corolla GT 0 - - - - - - - - DNF - - - - - - - - - - - - -
NC Tony Crudgington C Ford Fiesta XR2 0 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - DNF - - - - - - -
NC Paddy Driver C Toyota Corolla GT 0 - - - - DNF - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
NC Jenny Birrell C Toyota Corolla GT 0 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - DNS -

Pos. Cl. Car Points R01 R02 R03 R04 R05 R06 R07 R08 R09 R10 R11
1. A Rover Vitesse 81 (99) 9 - 9 - 9 - 9 - 9 - 9 - 9 - 9 - 9 - 9 - 9 -
2. C Ford Escort RSi 72 (78) 4 - 6 - 2 - 9 - 9 - 9 - 6 - 9 - 6 - 9 - 9 -
2. B Alfa Romeo GTV6 72 (78) DNF - 6 - 6 - 9 - 9 - 6 - 9 - 9 - 6 - 9 - 9 -
4. C VW Golf GTi 51 (57) 6 - 3 - 9 - 6 - 4 - 4 - 4 - 6 - 9 - 3 - 3 -
5. B Mazda RX-7 40 6 - 4 - 4 - 6 - 4 - - - 4 - 6 - DNF - 6 - DNF -
6. B MG Metro Turbo 29 - - - - - - DNF - 6 - DNF - 6 - 4 - 9 - DNF - 4 -
7. C VW Scirocco GTi 28 DNF - 9 - [7] - 4 - DNF - 6 - 9 - DNF - DNF - [7] - [7] -
8. A BMW 635CSi 21?/25? - - - - - - - - - - 4 - 6 - 3 - 6 - 4 - 2 -
9. C Alfa Romeo Alfasud 20 DNF - 2 - 6 - 3 - DNF - 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - DNF - 2 -
10. A Opel Monza 17 DNF - 3 - 3 - - - 2 - 2 - 4 - [7] - 1 - 1 - 1 -
11. A Ford Capri 12 2 - 2 - - - - - 3 - - - 3 - [9] - 2 - [8] - [7] -
12. C Toyota Corolla GT 9 9 - - - DNF - - - DNF - [7] - [8] - DNS - [7] - DNF - DNF -
12. C MG Metro 1300 9 - - ? - 3 - 1 - 2 - 3 - DNF - - - - - - - - -
14. A Toyota Celica Supra 5 - - - - - - NC - DNS - - - - - 1 - 4 - DNF - DNF -
? A Mitsubishi Colt ST 4 - - - - - - - - - - DNF - [7] - [10] - DNF - DNF - 4 -
15. C Ford Fiesta XR2 1 1 - ? - DNF - DNF - - - - - - - DNF - - - - - - -
NC C Talbot Sunbeam TI 0 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [8] - DNF - - - - -

21 or 25 points to the BMW 635CSis?

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Aug 2011, 23:13 (Ref:2942300)   #71
KA
Veteran
 
KA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,321
KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!
Thanks Jesper- I'd looked at the full results on Frank's site, but hadn't investigated the championship table.

There's one very big puzzle in the table- and it seems to exist in every version I've seen, including the 'official' one on BTCC.net. If Soper and Lovett were disqualified from the championship, how come Jeff Allam- driving an identical car, run by the same team- wasn't?
KA is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2011, 06:19 (Ref:2942360)   #72
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I have been wondering about the Allam situation too - and the manufactures standing for Rover can't be unaffected either. It is as if nobody cared when Steve Soper (but also Pete Lovett?) was finally disqualified by June 1984 and Andy Rouse crowned the '83 champion.

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2011, 09:12 (Ref:2942394)   #73
Tim Wilkinson
Veteran
 
Tim Wilkinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
England
Essex
Posts: 782
Tim Wilkinson should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The Shawcross tribunal seemed to have a specific remit re: the '83 results. When they announced their decision at the end of July '84, they made 2 decisions, over-riding previous findings of scrutineers at and after races:

1. Remove a Ted Grace BMW from the results of a Silverstone meeting, due to an illegal steering mechanism. (Could this be the loss of 4 points, 21 vs 25, round 6?)

2. Remove the TWR Rovers from the results due to illegal panels and modified rockers. (The statement printed in Autosport doesn't name any drivers, just the teams. Is it possible that TWR had only nominated Soper and Lovett, or that only Soper and Lovett were protested, so Allam was outside the remit of the tribunal?)
Tim Wilkinson is offline  
__________________
If you want to get a hat, get a head.
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2011, 13:27 (Ref:2942491)   #74
KA
Veteran
 
KA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,321
KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson View Post
The Shawcross tribunal seemed to have a specific remit re: the '83 results. When they announced their decision at the end of July '84, they made 2 decisions, over-riding previous findings of scrutineers at and after races:

1. Remove a Ted Grace BMW from the results of a Silverstone meeting, due to an illegal steering mechanism. (Could this be the loss of 4 points, 21 vs 25, round 6?)

2. Remove the TWR Rovers from the results due to illegal panels and modified rockers. (The statement printed in Autosport doesn't name any drivers, just the teams. Is it possible that TWR had only nominated Soper and Lovett, or that only Soper and Lovett were protested, so Allam was outside the remit of the tribunal?)
Good questions Tim. I hadn't started reading Autosport in '83, so the only source I have to hand are the reports from Performance Car magazine- monthly, and often the reports are sketchy, sometimes covering two rounds in one report or concentrating on a couple of particular stories (I don't have all of them either, which doesn't help)

Not sure about Point 1, though TWR certainly protested both the Ted Grace/Frank Sytner and Cheylesmore 635s at least once during the season-
Just had a look at the result as listed by Frank de Jong, and it seems to be the GP meeting where Sytner had issues with the scrutineers- the first four finishers (the 3 TWR Rovers and Sytner's 635) are all listed as DQ'd for technical infringements.
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...tone%20GP.html


Point two sounds like the outcome of the protests Sytner instigated against TWR at the two Donington rounds, in June... (rear inner wheelarches- is this the infamous 'African-market-spec' modification that led to the team being dubbed 'Third World Racing' by some wit at the time?)

...and again in August (valve gear- IIRC this was the modified rockers issue). TWR counter-protested both 635s on this occasion over alleged bodywork irregularities.

Before the second Donington meeting Walkinshaw had taken out a writ against the MSA alleging mishandling of the previous protest- according to PC magazine, the rumour in the paddock at Donington was that he'd tried to get an injunction to prevent the race happening at all!

I'm guessing that the Donington affair may have been the beginning of the process that led to Shawcross?

I don't remember whether it was 1983 or 84 (I think the latter) but as I recall there's a lovely quote in one of the Performance Car articles from IIRC, Jon Dooley who apparently said something like 'Their legal budget is bigger than our racing budget for the whole season'.

I wondered very briefly if the removal from the championship table of Soper and Lovett had been based on solely on the evidence gathered after Sytner's protests at the two Donington rounds- Jeff Allam's car was a DNF at both of these, so somehow was never actually inspected by the scrutineers over the protested issues at these two meetings?

That doesn't stack up though, as Soper and Lovett scored one retirement each from these two rounds as well, only one TWR car seeing the chequered flag at both Donington races.

The Rovers were also apparently protested at the Silverstone GP meeting (between the two Donington races), where all three finished- though I'm not sure on what grounds.
Still, there's enough there to shoot my 'Allam's car somehow never being inspected over the protests' theory down pretty comprehensively!
KA is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2011, 16:34 (Ref:2942561)   #75
Jesper OH
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
Taastrup, Denmark
Posts: 1,170
Jesper OH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson View Post
The Shawcross tribunal seemed to have a specific remit re: the '83 results. When they announced their decision at the end of July '84, they made 2 decisions, over-riding previous findings of scrutineers at and after races:

1. Remove a Ted Grace BMW from the results of a Silverstone meeting, due to an illegal steering mechanism. (Could this be the loss of 4 points, 21 vs 25, round 6?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KA View Post
Not sure about Point 1, though TWR certainly protested both the Ted Grace/Frank Sytner and Cheylesmore 635s at least once during the season-
Just had a look at the result as listed by Frank de Jong, and it seems to be the GP meeting where Sytner had issues with the scrutineers- the first four finishers (the 3 TWR Rovers and Sytner's 635) are all listed as DQ'd for technical infringements.
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...tone%20GP.html
A BMW disqualification could very likely make the difference betwin 21 and 25 points in the manufactures championship, but none of the three 635-drivers seems to have been affected ..or perhaps Frank Sytner ended on 9 rather than 13 points in the driver standings?

Jesper
Jesper OH is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Tags
btcc, group a



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1984 Trimoco RAC British Saloon Car Championship - Discussion & Results Jesper OH Motorsport History 145 12 Jun 2015 08:19
1988 Dunlop RAC British Touring Car Championship - Discussion & Results Jesper OH Motorsport History 233 19 Sep 2012 07:59
British Saloon/Touring Car Championships Craig Motorsport History 100 18 Jan 2010 19:10
Northern Saloon & sports Car Championship Metroman National & Club Racing 17 6 Oct 2009 22:19
Formula Saloon Car Championship dazbaz_99 National & Club Racing 19 1 Aug 2005 17:54


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 23:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.