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23 Feb 2013, 17:33 (Ref:3209605) | #26 | ||
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So what you are saying is that the compounds are now fixed for the year...
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23 Feb 2013, 17:36 (Ref:3209606) | #27 | |||
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perhaps i am forgetting a end of year test session, but since the teams conduct their young driver tests at different times and different places i would think that in fairness to those who chose to test earlier in the season everyone would have to use the same tires so im guessing that meant they used last years versions. the timing of when they get the tires should be looked at more closely though. at the point of the first test some teams will have already spent literally tens of millions of dollars. not everyone is in the same boat then because Ferrari surely spent more than Sauber by the time either one of them got to see the 2013 tires. from a cost point of view its some what ridiculous that you let teams spend this kind of money before you introduce 'a revolutionary variable' into the mix that could easily make all that they spent a complete waste. |
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23 Feb 2013, 17:36 (Ref:3209609) | #28 | |
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Yes, that's what I'm saying. Pirelli has always done that. The only thing that may change is the choice of compound for individual races, but this is usually made well in advance of any race.
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23 Feb 2013, 17:38 (Ref:3209610) | #29 | ||
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Didn't the teams run this years rubber prior to the race at Brazil? on the Friday I thought, if I recall...
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23 Feb 2013, 17:41 (Ref:3209614) | #30 | |||
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This sums up where I am coming from to be honest.. |
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23 Feb 2013, 17:46 (Ref:3209620) | #31 | ||
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23 Feb 2013, 17:48 (Ref:3209622) | #32 | ||
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Again, if Ferrari, or whoever, want to risk spending that amount of money, then it's not the tyres that are at fault. |
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23 Feb 2013, 18:26 (Ref:3209642) | #33 | |||
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and its not just a 'big team' problem because they can afford to fix their problems after the fact. the real problem is for a team with a limited budget because they have less options for changing direction once they get to the first winter test and a chance to put on significant real world miles. if they have to wait for the tires to show up before they can complete their designs you put them even further back in terms of time which is just another penalty like their problem of being out spent. we have enjoyed relatively stable rules for a number of years so the cost savings should have been higher but from the way the teams talk it hasent been the case so i question the logic of changing the compounds from year to year and the extra cost that entails. its not Pirelli's fault, i agree, but rather that of a a system that is looking less and less sustainable every year. |
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23 Feb 2013, 20:12 (Ref:3209685) | #34 | ||
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I think Pirelli should arrive at a place where they have a range of tyres that work well at most if not all of the places they visit and then leave it alone, otherwise the teams are constantly chasing the tyre maker..
Now that I know what was going on with Bridgestone and Ferrari-Michael, I am amazed the FIA just stood by and allowed blatant cheating to happen.. Absurd really.. |
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23 Feb 2013, 22:40 (Ref:3209733) | #35 | ||
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Yeah, it's now history of F1...
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24 Feb 2013, 00:33 (Ref:3209768) | #36 | |
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To what extent did the teams know about this year's tyre characteristics?
I know they tested on the Friday in Brazil. As has been said, it won't be good if some teams have a car totally at odds with the tyres, but I would be surprised if it was as 'random' as last year. Edit: on which note, Button says this: http://www.autosport.com/news/report...ce=mostpopular Last edited by Born Racer; 24 Feb 2013 at 00:38. |
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24 Feb 2013, 01:51 (Ref:3209790) | #37 | ||
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It 's a whole bunch of jibberish that, what is atm a single tyre formula, the tyres have become such as issue. 1 manufacturer choosing to participate means that multiple compounds are unnecessary. It completely demeans/devalues the supposed highest level of motorsport that any manufacturer is asked to develop marshmallow tyres. Whinging fans, he and around the world, who complain that races are drawn out or "boring" are blowing a tornado of hot air.
What those people don't get (even in the F1 industry) is that 300kms is a long, long, looooonnnnnnng way. It 's really is a long way. Unless you totally corrupt the nature of a legit car race, there will always be dead or quiet periods. But no, you/they want a fvee race on steroids. Do something else on a sunday afternoon/night. The only time tyre should become a news story is when it there's a legit competition between two or more manufacturers or when a manufacturer brings in a new development. It is secondary news story otherwise. |
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24 Feb 2013, 02:04 (Ref:3209795) | #38 | ||||
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What are they? |
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24 Feb 2013, 02:44 (Ref:3209808) | #39 | |
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The sort of news story that you don't want is when one manufacturers tyres actually have a construction failure (Indy 2005) because they have pushed their tyre just a little too far. And if truth be told, that's why you'll never see another tyre war again. The FIA have no influence on how a tyre manufacturer makes an F1 tyre other than its dimensions. With a single tyre provider the FIA can at least be assured that the tyre isn't going to be structurally compromised. Those boring round black things do at least need to be safe.
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24 Feb 2013, 03:33 (Ref:3209825) | #40 | ||
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They are control tyres, they should be a constant and no longer a variable. |
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24 Feb 2013, 09:46 (Ref:3209907) | #41 | ||
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In the 2007-10 period Bridgestone made tyres that were probably more suited to endurance racing. The current tyres are designed to have a limited lifespan and that is what makes the challenge, of which tyre to use and for how long. For the driver it is drive more aggresively and have more pit stops V's drive carefully and have less tyre changes. If you have tyres that last a whole race then it does not present a strategy challenge. |
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24 Feb 2013, 11:12 (Ref:3209942) | #42 | |
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1999 and 2000 were catastrophically bad years.
At the time they were tense seasons, with quite close title battles, but go back and watch the individual races now. Dire stuff. Bridgestone made absolutely rock hard tyres and it was impossible to race on them. Ally that to the wonderful refuelling era and you had a recipe for pooh. So, so boring especially when you got to watch a thrilling CART race later in the day. This is why Pirelli have a mandate to make tyres that fall apart the moment you leave the pits, unfortunately. |
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24 Feb 2013, 13:17 (Ref:3209999) | #43 | ||
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Obvious conclusions drawn so far are that the tyres have a wider operating range and degrade a bit more than last seasons tyres did, which is exactly what Pirelli and the teams said they would do after trialing them during free practice in Brazil. |
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24 Feb 2013, 13:27 (Ref:3210002) | #44 | ||
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Before Pirelli got the contract, Michelin had suggested to the FIA that it would be a good idea to have two or more tyre manufacturers doing the opposite of what Pirelli are doing. That is, make tyres that last for as long as possible with tyre constructor points given to whichever tyre was changed less often by each team/car/driver throughout the season. If you wanted to hear about nothing but tyres, that was surely the best way to go. |
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25 Feb 2013, 02:43 (Ref:3210261) | #45 | ||||
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One stop or two? Instead of trying to drag an extra lap out with fuel, you're trying to go as long as you can til a lap before those around you to take advantage of a fresh set. It's nothing, making the curent tyres last an extra lap or two would have nothing to do with driver skill, maybe just a fraction of a pound either way with the suspesion. Nelson Piquet won the 1990 Japanese and Australian GP by making the tyres last the whole way, a tactic he employed for most of the season. I can't remember a recent race where similar has occurred, without having the advantage of a better car on the day. |
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25 Feb 2013, 02:53 (Ref:3210263) | #46 | ||||
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25 Feb 2013, 13:11 (Ref:3210454) | #47 | |
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No, the mechanical grip in those years was severely lacking because of the tyres. They even looked hard, as if made of the same construction as you'd find on a cheap toy cars plastic tyres. Some drivers could not adapt to them at all as they had no feel and finding the limit was difficult. Remember, this was still the early days of grooved tyres (and narrow chassis) and, with no competition after Goodyear left, Bridgestone opted for safety first. The irony being that the tyres were actually quite dangerous to drive on, with the cars snapping out of control seemingly for no real reason sometimes.
It was only once Michelin returned that grip levels shot up and laptimes tumbled. The cars became easier to race, although this was soon negated by the vast improvements brought about by increasingly sophisticated aerodynamic development. But trust me, 1999 and 2000 were truly horrendous, barring the noise the McLaren's made. I still look back with sadness at the 90 minutes of my life I lost watching the '99 Spanish GP. |
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25 Feb 2013, 14:29 (Ref:3210500) | #48 | |
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25 Feb 2013, 17:37 (Ref:3210579) | #49 | ||
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Well, he did waste his time !
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25 Feb 2013, 18:33 (Ref:3210595) | #50 | |||
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