2014 Liqui Moly Bathurst 12 Hour: 7-9 February (Merged)

[Scrut]

Originally Posted by rich07

It would be interesting to see which team would run the GTR. No one here has any experience with the car and Nissan would want a strong entry so Im tipping JRM may do so.

Gibson Motorsport.

Mr Gibson & Mr Heaphy are back in business.

Given their history with the GTR it could be a good reunion.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

I don't really keep up with Datto racers, but isn't there a V8 GTR that is really fast?

The road 458 has more power than the GT3 version. Same engine, but restricted in GT3 form.

who needs a V8 when you can have a V6 twin turbo.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Scrut

Gibson Motorsport.

Mr Gibson & Mr Heaphy are back in business.

Given their history with the GTR it could be a good reunion.

Mr Richards Sr, Mr Skaife & Mr Crompton for one of these rockets?

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Mr Richards Sr, Mr Skaife & Mr Crompton for one of these rockets?

will it come with a Orange triangular flag on white pole sticking up from the bootlid?

[rich07]

Originally Posted by FAS33

who needs a V8 when you can have a V6 twin turbo.

World FIA GT1 Champions JRM Motorsport, multiple Super GT champs Nismo Xanavi spring to mind

Can't see Gibson having anything to do with this unless it's a pure marketing Nissan marketing exercise and they don't care about a good result, Gibson may have done awesome things in the past but that was a long time ago, his domain is historics now.

Mind you a Skaife Richards Crompton car is a tempting thought.....

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by rich07

Mind you a Skaife Richards Crompton car is a tempting thought.....

They're not serious if Neil is in it. I would much rather any of you be the third driver.

[R4z3rw33n]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

They're not serious if Neil is in it. I would much rather any of you be the third driver.

Which makes it all the more a possibility, right?

Nissan hasn't exactly been serious with their motorsport efforts (exempting SGT) in recent times.
As a marque, they seem more focused on promotional shenanigans than legitimate competition and/or engineering.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by R4z3rw33n

Nissan hasn't exactly been serious with their motorsport efforts (exempting SGT) in recent times.
As a marque, they seem more focused on promotional shenanigans than legitimate competition and/or engineering.

The video game link competition has been a great promotion into a market segment that motorsport in general has been ignoring (to the sports detriment).
And they have uncovered some surprisingly good talent.

[FAS33]

wasn't theyre a competition they ran where a guy that won it or some other simulator comp, after competing a few races in a sportscar series, he eventually drove in the Le Mans race? looks like I got a chance!

[Reload]

Originally Posted by FAS33

wasn't theyre a competition they ran where a guy that won it or some other simulator comp, after competing a few races in a sportscar series, he eventually drove in the Le Mans race? looks like I got a chance!

If you can drive half as good as you talk yourself up, you will be F1 World Champion.

[FAS33]

you on Iracing yet Reload would love to have a race.

[Reload]

Originally Posted by FAS33

you on Iracing yet Reload would love to have a race.

No thanks as seeing that you have DVS experience already, you have me covered

[MitchZ06]

Originally Posted by FAS33

wasn't theyre a competition they ran where a guy that won it or some other simulator comp, after competing a few races in a sportscar series, he eventually drove in the Le Mans race? looks like I got a chance!

GT Academy

[hotlavaaaa]

Originally Posted by one five five

Now, but what about in a year?

A program like this would only strengthen their Nissan and Nismo ties

It would make sense to have Nissan Motorsport Australia involved at least to provide some drivers. A couple people have written into Rick's radio show to ask if they are planning to do the 12 Hour next year and he said there were no plans and he didn't seem to be aware that the GT-R GT3 even existed. Nissan run a GT-R GT3 in the Super Taikyu series in Japan and given the Kelly's ties to NISMO it's possible that it could be a straight factory effort if it does happen. I think it would be great to have some of the Nissan V8 drivers team up with some of the Nissan Super GT drivers.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by R4z3rw33n

Which makes it all the more a possibility, right?

Nissan hasn't exactly been serious with their motorsport efforts (exempting SGT) in recent times.
As a marque, they seem more focused on promotional shenanigans than legitimate competition and/or engineering.

as well as Japanese Super GT, they're involved with LMP2, GT3, GT4, BES, V8SC, Time Attack, FIA GT1 (had one of the best engineers)-now called FIA GT Series, British GT. I think they are a bit serious about Motorsports.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by FAS33

as well as Japanese Super GT, they're involved with LMP2, GT3, GT4, BES, V8SC, Time Attack, FIA GT1 (had one of the best engineers)-now called FIA GT Series, British GT. I think they are a bit serious about Motorsports.

Nissans involvement and investment in global sports car racing can't be questioned, however they seem to be more interested in promotion rather than actually winning in the top class. Now it will be argued of course, that is the reason why any manufacturers and sponsors are there. However, when they blatantly bleed everything they compete in, for what it's worth, with monotonous boring coverage, it becomes very tiresome and turns me right off their product. I never had anything against Nissan cars, however I run a mile at the mere mention of their name now. Anyone who saw last years coverage of the Le Mans 24 hour race will know what I mean. Darren Cox and his team of lackeys droned on and on and on, about the Delta Wing and their motorsport involvement. In the end, I was glad the thing crashed out, but that of course still didn't shut him up. Their post race social and mainstream media coverage was pathetic, with more of the same.
Nissan's P2 engine program has been fantastically successful, and they should be applauded for it's success, but I would rather now see them get involved with a full LMP1 program where they would gain more respect.
I hope they do come and compete at the B12 with a fair dinkum approach to the race, but going on their recent soap opera PR ventures, it's going to be ALL ABOUT THEM rather than a real chance of a podium spot. In fact I'm surprised that they haven't started yet with that approach with their V8SC involvement, but I think it may be the calm before the storm.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

Nissans involvement and investment in global sports car racing can't be questioned, however they seem to be more interested in promotion rather than actually winning in the top class.
I hope they do come and compete at the B12 with a fair dinkum approach to the race, but going on their recent soap opera PR ventures, it's going to be ALL ABOUT THEM rather than a real chance of a podium spot. In fact I'm surprised that they haven't started yet with that approach with their V8SC involvement, but I think it may be the calm before the storm.

Any businessman who invests in a motorsport entry/promotion who doesn't adopt an ALL ABOUT US attitude should not be claiming it as a business expense or a tax deduction.
The Nissan approach is about making contact with a significant section of the potential market which most motor sport participants seem to wish did not exist.
The brilliant GT Academy program has made the Z cars and other Nissan products the centre mind car of a significant part of the games generation. And has led to a new method of entry to high levels of the sport for people who otherwise would not have had an oppotunity.
The Delta wing project was a demonstration that Nissan was about developing novel concepts and was not part of the traditional "establishment".
Super GT, the LMP2 engine programe, and the next project, the electric Le Mans Car for garage 56 in 2015 are all aimed at generating an image of Nissan being an adventureous inovator. That is what the market they are trying to capture wants.
There are of course markets for superbly built fried eggs that are incrementally developed year by year to an amazing lrvel of perfection, but that is a different, and much smaller market.
Roll on the next B12. A Bathurst based GT Academy contest would put the event on the map to a whole new range of people.

[R4z3rw33n]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

The video game link competition has been a great promotion into a market segment that motorsport in general has been ignoring (to the sports detriment).
And they have uncovered some surprisingly good talent.

Originally Posted by R4z3rw33n

As a marque, they seem more focused on promotional shenanigans than legitimate competition and/or engineering.

There's critical sentiment toward Nissan as their recent exploits have primarily concerned pursuit of novelty for the sake of such, rather than pursuit of glory via genuine competition.
As a marque that seems eager to extol the virtues of competition, they've taken great strides in the aversion direct competition - on genuine terms - against others.

Most of their recent factory efforts haven't contributed anything of great worth, or benefit to the chosen arena of competition - they've opted for a number of attention whoring exercises which concern only their PR pursuit of the moment.

It's reasonable that PR value be the basis on which competitive exploits are justified.
When pursuit of the former usurps interest in legitimacy of the latter, the devaluing of both results.

Originally Posted by FAS33

as well as Japanese Super GT, they're involved with LMP2, GT3, GT4, BES, V8SC, Time Attack, FIA GT1 (had one of the best engineers)-now called FIA GT Series, British GT. I think they are a bit serious about Motorsports.

There's a reasonable line of argument in their gaming the market to the utmost extent. As far far as competition's concerned, there's nothing particularly sporting about a number of their recent ventures.
As far as their current factory efforts are concerned, there's credibility in SGT, P2 engine supply, V8SC and GT3 - circumstances pending.

Their recent portfolio includes:
- Decimating fields of privateers under regulations in decline;
- Placing decals on vehicles that don't conform to any common regulatory classification (while competing alongside others that conform to such);
- Throwing select, vetted amateurs in PRO/AM classes.

While there isn't anything 'wrong' about any of these activities, engaging in any of the above, then having the audacity to claim the 'underdog' card (in spite of economic circumstance) isn't, under any worthwhile criteria, an awe-inspiring display of credibility or commitment.

There's reasonable credence to the 'hate the game, not the player' line of argument - all of the above examples required willing (or, at least complicit) sanctioning bodies.
This caveat doesn't heighten the legitimacy of Nissan's efforts.

[Oldtony]

Well I guess one firms "attention whoring" and "novelty at all costs" is anothers targeted campaign to secure a new market segment.
And by the same account one firms dedication to securing traditional big name race results is anothers "stick in the mud, negative money wasting".
But can you imagine the whole new market for the event that would be developed if GT Academy featured a competition for a 370Z GT4 drive in the 12hr?
I go back a long way, and tradition is great, but I get the feeling our sport is missing the developing market.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

Nissans involvement and investment in global sports car racing can't be questioned, however they seem to be more interested in promotion rather than actually winning in the top class.

I've found it funny. That of the two newbies in V8sc, despite Nissan being the only one with a factory effort, it's MB that's getting all the "promotion/publicity".

Originally Posted by R4z3rw33n

While there isn't anything 'wrong' about any of these activities, engaging in any of the above, then having the audacity to claim the 'underdog' card (in spite of economic circumstance) isn't, under any worthwhile criteria, an awe-inspiring display of credibility or commitment.

Yeah, but getting involved with mong, rich bogans like the Kelly's, means they're definitely the underdog.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Any businessman who invests in a motorsport entry/promotion who doesn't adopt an ALL ABOUT US attitude should not be claiming it as a business expense or a tax deduction.

Point taken, however if they then expect their efforts to work on us, the consumer, they are wasting their time, going on the backlash the DW has created.

Originally Posted by Oldtony

The Delta wing project was a demonstration that Nissan was about developing novel concepts and was not part of the traditional "establishment".

The Delta Wing was not a Nissan creation. It was designed by Ben Bowlby, and basically hawked out to the highest bidder. Nissan paid their money, put an RML developed Nissan engine into the thing, and created this exercise in futility, that was never about competing head to head, in the set rules of LMP racing. Instead they got to race/exhibit the car from the ACO's "garage 56" for experimental entries.
My question - Against who??

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Super GT, the LMP2 engine programe, and the next project, the electric Le Mans Car for garage 56 in 2015 are all aimed at generating an image of Nissan being an adventureous inovator. That is what the market they are trying to capture wants.

Le Mans has always been about innovation, but in the past it's been about innovation within the existing rules and classes. Sure.... bring something new and different, but compete, not exhibit! There are other places to do that. Despite Nissans BS, the Delta Wing was taken out of the race by simply getting in the way of the real competitors. Their garage 56 entry next year will be more of the same.

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Roll on the next B12. A Bathurst based GT Academy contest would put the event on the map to a whole new range of people.

Any additional entry would be a plus for the B12, but their GT academy shouldn't be let loose in, what is now close to becoming a world class endurance race. Maybe they could bring Jann Mardenborough out to race with a pro and have a real chance at a win, instead of hijacking races to showcase their ALL ABOUT THEM marketing style.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

The Delta Wing was not a Nissan creation. It was designed by Ben Bowlby, and basically hawked out to the highest bidder. Nissan paid their money, put an RML developed Nissan engine into the thing, and created this exercise in futility, that was never about competing head to head, in the set rules of LMP racing. Instead they got to race/exhibit the car from the ACO's "garage 56" for experimental entries.
My question - Against who??


Any additional entry would be a plus for the B12, but their GT academy shouldn't be let loose in, what is now close to becoming a world class endurance race. Maybe they could bring Jann Mardenborough out to race with a pro and have a real chance at a win, instead of hijacking races to showcase their ALL ABOUT THEM marketing style.

if they can allow a 5 time DTM winner to drive a car he helped develop, why wouldn't they allow those GT academy guys drive it?
will people remember or give the credit to the guy who engineered it or the livery on the side of the DW?

Originally Posted by R4z3rw33n

There's critical sentiment toward Nissan as their recent exploits have primarily concerned pursuit of novelty for the sake of such, rather than pursuit of glory via genuine competition.
As a marque that seems eager to extol the virtues of competition, they've taken great strides in the aversion direct competition - on genuine terms - against others.

Most of their recent factory efforts haven't contributed anything of great worth, or benefit to the chosen arena of competition - they've opted for a number of attention whoring exercises which concern only their PR pursuit of the moment.

It's reasonable that PR value be the basis on which competitive exploits are justified.
When pursuit of the former usurps interest in legitimacy of the latter, the devaluing of both results.



There's a reasonable line of argument in their gaming the market to the utmost extent. As far far as competition's concerned, there's nothing particularly sporting about a number of their recent ventures.
As far as their current factory efforts are concerned, there's credibility in SGT, P2 engine supply, V8SC and GT3 - circumstances pending.

Their recent portfolio includes:
- Decimating fields of privateers under regulations in decline;
- Placing decals on vehicles that don't conform to any common regulatory classification (while competing alongside others that conform to such);
- Throwing select, vetted amateurs in PRO/AM classes.

While there isn't anything 'wrong' about any of these activities, engaging in any of the above, then having the audacity to claim the 'underdog' card (in spite of economic circumstance) isn't, under any worthwhile criteria, an awe-inspiring display of credibility or commitment.

There's reasonable credence to the 'hate the game, not the player' line of argument - all of the above examples required willing (or, at least complicit) sanctioning bodies.
This caveat doesn't heighten the legitimacy of Nissan's efforts.

was the exact comeback line I would've said, but you did it for me.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

Point taken, however if they then expect their efforts to work on us, the consumer, they are wasting their time, going on the backlash the DW has created.

Any additional entry would be a plus for the B12, but their GT academy shouldn't be let loose in, what is now close to becoming a world class endurance race. Maybe they could bring Jann Mardenborough out to race with a pro and have a real chance at a win, instead of hijacking races to showcase their ALL ABOUT THEM marketing style.

I think you make the mistake of thinking that you (and your market segment) are the market they are aiming at.
The clever thing about the Nissan and Nismo use of motor sport is that they are attracting the attention of a market that couldn't give a rat's *&^% about the aims and traditions of the events or series. May not suit you or some of the older and more conservative people around, but it is a market that both Nissan and the Sport need to take notice of as it develops into a very significant part of the car buying market.
Old fashioned petrol heads like you and me are at risk of becoming extict!
The performance of the GT Academy entries in Blancpain, and particularly Dubai, have been solid efforts. They are not at the pointy end of GT3, but at GT4 level they are pretty respectable, and it is a whole new entry path to our sport.
I say again that a worldwide GT Academy competition for a Bathurst drive would bring more attention to the event than say a McLaren entry.
Maybe Mr O'Brien should try to swing a deal.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

I think you make the mistake of thinking that you (and your market segment) are the market they are aiming at.
........... May not suit you or some of the older and more conservative people around.....................
Old fashioned petrol heads like you and me are at risk of becoming extict!

Hey, I resemble that.

[Christopher]

Martin Brundle said today to Rusty, he'd like to Bathurst, V8s or the 12 Hour. Given he did lemans in a Nissan powered car and who is looking to enter a car or two in 2014.....
Nissan GTR GT3 - Todd Kelly, Mark Skaife and Martin Brundle.....or maybe not.....