Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 7 Apr 2013, 09:56 (Ref:3230285)   #16
FAS33
Veteran
 
FAS33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Australia
1st - 6th gear
Posts: 1,762
FAS33 User had had their licence endorsedFAS33 User had had their licence endorsed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
You must be new around here.
we all start somewhere, fair comment? I just wanted to create an awareness sort of thing as another alternative to the tintops.
actually knew this series existed back in my driving days............. on PS2 - V8 Supercars 3 FTW! aah good times
FAS33 is offline  
__________________
Everyone knows blue cars are the fastest.
Quote
Old 7 Apr 2013, 10:32 (Ref:3230306)   #17
ForumNick
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Australia
Posts: 950
ForumNick should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Fish

All very interesting!!!

But belongs here: http://tentenths.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=26

(The Mod should have moved this thread, rather than legitimising it by contributing to it)
ForumNick is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Apr 2013, 11:04 (Ref:3230317)   #18
formerf1champ
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Australia
Vettel's gearbox preparing bench
Posts: 1,030
formerf1champ should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
The problem is F3 just does not appeal to the masses in Australia, and is just seen as another ladder to V8Supercars these days.
I'm certain now that the problem with with open wheel racing all over the world is that it's seen as a stepping stone to somewhere, be it F1, Indycars, V8s, whatever. Governing bodies all over ought ot start changing the image of these cars/series so that all types of competitors see it as a serious option to compete in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
A glorified club series??

The series is awarded the highest honour in Australian motor racing, they compete for the Gold Star and the Australian Drivers Championship.
Yeah, but it's not taken seriously isn't it? It only has that honour because there is no other series to give it to. I knew what ptclaus98 meant.
formerf1champ is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Apr 2013, 11:59 (Ref:3230343)   #19
GTRMagic
Race Official
1% Club
 
GTRMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Australia
Sell me this pen....
Posts: 45,224
GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!GTRMagic is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForumNick View Post
All very interesting!!!

But belongs here: http://tentenths.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=26

(The Mod should have moved this thread, rather than legitimising it by contributing to it)
Last year there wasnt even a 2012 AF3 thread, they just kept going on the 2011 thread. I changed the title with a view to moving it to NISS when the content bulked up
GTRMagic is offline  
__________________
Think Tank.. Creative Inertia..
Always Be Closing.. Telling's Not Selling..
Perpetuate The Cycle.. GTS - Google That Stuff..
Manufacturing Intellect.. My endless lunch break starts now..
Motion Creates Emotion..
Take control of your journey..
Savings. Service. Satisfaction..
You cannot follow fake and expect to find real..
Give me health and strength, we'll steal the rest..
It's easier to throw rocks at a house than to build one..
Quote
Old 7 Apr 2013, 12:14 (Ref:3230349)   #20
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,704
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus_nz View Post
Please clarify what you mean. Are you suggesting a V8 powered single seater class?
Most definatly

touring car racing went 'back to the future' in 1993 with V8s. The last time Australian open-wheel racing had any 'prescence' in Australia was in the late-70s with Formula 5000.

Even when the formula was in its 'death throws' due to influential people pushing the "Formula Pacific" barrow, a Rothmans Series round at Sandown could still pull 30,000+

Why not do the obvious? There are plenty of chassis around the world that can take a V8, and we have a perfect V8 engine formula in Australia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus_nz View Post
F3 is an incredibly technical class and a driver can learn soooooooo much by doing it.
As with all championship classes that race all over the country it is expensive.
The cars are fairly fragile and (esp Dallara) parts are a bit gold plated.
The engine rules mean that rebuilds come along frequently also
We were fed the "incredibly technical class and a driver can learn soooooooo much by doing it" line as the reason for dropping F5000 for Formula Pacific, and the same again as a reason for dropping Formula Brabham for F3 in 2003... the problem is in both cases all the promises have been followed by small grids...

The fact you mention the cars are fairly fragile, parts are gold plated & engines rules mean frequent rebuilds, hardly makes a case for keeping F3.

Formula 3 is not an 'aspirtational category', why not get some open-wheelers that are abit 'lairy', get the punters attention and in time with some correct marketing, might give tracks a nice second attraction to the V8 meeting as we've had in past years with TOCA, PROCAR and Supertrucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by formerf1champ
I'm certain now that the problem with with open wheel racing all over the world is that it's seen as a stepping stone to somewhere, be it F1, Indycars, V8s, whatever.
Its a problem with open wheel racing all over the world is that it's seen as a stepping stone to F1 or Indycars??

Surely the point of any open-wheel category is to be a stepping stone to those two classes only!
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Apr 2013, 16:09 (Ref:3230434)   #21
FordCosworthPanoz
Veteran
 
FordCosworthPanoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Bermuda
Flatts Village
Posts: 4,016
FordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Well, more often than not series like F3 actually become stepping stones to Sportscar Racing/GT or Touring cars, whether they're intended to be that way or not.
FordCosworthPanoz is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Apr 2013, 19:28 (Ref:3230513)   #22
Icarus_nz
Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
New Zealand
Paradise
Posts: 498
Icarus_nz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridIcarus_nz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sorry, I can't agree one five five.

I understand the sentiment of a big engined car but increased hp = an exponential increase in running costs.
The aim is to increase the grid sizes I thought.

A good example of a modern v8 'lairy' single seater would be a1gp (now auto gp)

Each formula is 'of its time'. F5000 was all big tyres and mechanical grip. F Atlantic were tunnel cars and perfectly relevant to their time.
As you know F Holden (3000) were big aero cars - starting in the time of flat bottoms. The 'local content' v6 was an attempt to control costs.
Current F3 are one of the most 'aero' formula out there and there well relevant to everything up the tree and, as pointed out, sportscars.

Really there are two choices. Go to a cost effective class I.e. F Renault or its variants or introduce yet another mongrel class that is big and noisy as you've suggested.
To make it cost effective however it would invariably be crude and have no appeal or relevance to young fellas.
In is sense tat wouldn't matter except the class would be full of fat old blokes of dubious ability. Not really compelling viewing.

I wonder if the situation is Aus would be any different now if Toyota Australia had got behind the Toyota Racing Series around 06 - 07?

Not as much to learn but certainly much more affordable...
Icarus_nz is offline  
__________________
The is no truth, only perspective.
Quote
Old 7 Apr 2013, 23:08 (Ref:3230637)   #23
ForumNick
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Australia
Posts: 950
ForumNick should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
Last year there wasnt even a 2012 AF3 thread, they just kept going on the 2011 thread. I changed the title with a view to moving it to NISS when the content bulked up

Ok... but they're still not 'Touring Cars' !
ForumNick is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Apr 2013, 23:59 (Ref:3230646)   #24
Tourer
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Sideways
Posts: 2,948
Tourer has a real shot at the podium!Tourer has a real shot at the podium!Tourer has a real shot at the podium!Tourer has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus_nz View Post
Sorry, I can't agree one five five.

I understand the sentiment of a big engined car but increased hp = an exponential increase in running costs.
The aim is to increase the grid sizes I thought.

A good example of a modern v8 'lairy' single seater would be a1gp (now auto gp)

Each formula is 'of its time'. F5000 was all big tyres and mechanical grip. F Atlantic were tunnel cars and perfectly relevant to their time.
As you know F Holden (3000) were big aero cars - starting in the time of flat bottoms. The 'local content' v6 was an attempt to control costs.
Current F3 are one of the most 'aero' formula out there and there well relevant to everything up the tree and, as pointed out, sportscars.

Really there are two choices. Go to a cost effective class I.e. F Renault or its variants or introduce yet another mongrel class that is big and noisy as you've suggested.
To make it cost effective however it would invariably be crude and have no appeal or relevance to young fellas.
In is sense tat wouldn't matter except the class would be full of fat old blokes of dubious ability. Not really compelling viewing.

I wonder if the situation is Aus would be any different now if Toyota Australia had got behind the Toyota Racing Series around 06 - 07?

Not as much to learn but certainly much more affordable...
Not necessarily an increase in running costs with bigger engines - team owner at the time of the change told me that it cost way more to run a competitive F3 car for a season than a competitive F Holden. Make of that what you will but he was a smart, organised guy and I reckon he would have thought it all through and tracked it properly.

Toyota Australia definitely looked at TRS in 06 but had other priorities at the time and in reality didn't really have a motorsport focus. Star Mazda was also looked at around then but didn't come together for a range of reasons.

Open wheelers above FF level have always been hard in Oz - F5000 got the closest to REALLY appealing but really, it's been a struggle for open wheeled cars ever since touring cars got seriously strong in the late 60s / early 70s. A pommie friend of mine tells the story of going to Sandown fresh off the plane for a Tasman series round - the crowd were climbing fences, going right off when the touring cars were out but went off to cook their barbies, chat to their mates etc when the open wheelers came out which was weird to him from a euro background - this was early 70s.
Tourer is online now  
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue
Quote
Old 8 Apr 2013, 00:41 (Ref:3230652)   #25
Samwhk
Racer
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
New Zealand
Posts: 397
Samwhk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post

They need to put some spice back into it with a set of regulations that will appeal to Australia....the obvious answer surely is a set of regulations with engine regs the exact same as V8Supercars....
This. I think a series like that would have some great appeal in both Oz and NZ. We used to get coverage of FHolden over here, when I was but a wee lad, and apart from F1, it's been about the only open wheel series that I got into. There were names that were relevant to me, they sound good, looked good, and were entertaining to watch.

Surely there must be an existing chassis out there (I don't know much about them to be honest, but what happened to all the old GP2 chassis when they updated?) that it wouldn't be too hard to nail a V8SC engine into? There's 4 engine suppliers now, they'd sound better than any open wheelers short of F1, and would be lightening fast.
Samwhk is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Apr 2013, 05:17 (Ref:3230697)   #26
Sequel
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 124
Sequel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
5L open wheelers would be great, but they can hardly replace F3. Are the kids going to do a season in a Duratec FFord with no grip and no power and then start racing FAusV8? Unlikely, there will still need to be a level in between.

The problem is that currently there isn't enough money going around. No open wheel category short of F1 can provide ROI based on stickers on side pods. Touring cars have a lot of space to sell. Junior open wheel racing the world over relies on benefactors/investors as opposed to sponsors buying sticker space.

With 12+ cars for the opening 2 rounds, here is hoping that AF3 is on the comeback and will still be around in a few years ready to cash in on the next boom, I think it is a great category.
Sequel is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Apr 2013, 05:38 (Ref:3230699)   #27
Langers
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location:
Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 623
Langers should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Not a series that has ever appealed to me that much for many reasons.

The cars are glued to the road with aero and don't look fast even when pushing hard, they don't move around on the road like FFord, they're not the pinnacle of technology that is F1, they don't race frequently enough, they don't sound that great, the drivers are nobodies (for now), small grids, unknown teams, low-budget sponsors, and a general feeling of amateurness. TV coverage is also pretty terrible without any decent expert commentary.
Langers is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Apr 2013, 12:41 (Ref:3231470)   #28
rjco
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 6
rjco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I note that the Toyota series in NZ are looking at upgrading the chassis with a more powerful engine within the next 2-3 years. Maybe if both Toyota in Aus and NZ got together they could develop at specification that would appeal to drivers and spectators, something around the 300hp mark. If they done this then a team could compete in the NZ summer series and there could be a series in Aus that way it is viable to the team owners as they could use cars in both series.
rjco is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Apr 2013, 23:57 (Ref:3231771)   #29
gomick
Race Official
Veteran
 
gomick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Australia
Gobur 3719...
Posts: 10,125
gomick should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridgomick should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich07 View Post
Well there used to be a thread in the National & International Single Seaters subforum which would be more appropriate for this discussion..
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137210
gomick is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2013, 02:22 (Ref:3231796)   #30
ptclaus98
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
United States
Posts: 1,766
ptclaus98 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjco View Post
I note that the Toyota series in NZ are looking at upgrading the chassis with a more powerful engine within the next 2-3 years. Maybe if both Toyota in Aus and NZ got together they could develop at specification that would appeal to drivers and spectators, something around the 300hp mark. If they done this then a team could compete in the NZ summer series and there could be a series in Aus that way it is viable to the team owners as they could use cars in both series.
LOL. What a kick in the teeth to see Atlantics re-emerge half a world away.
ptclaus98 is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.