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Old 7 May 2013, 20:32 (Ref:3244103)   #1531
wewantourdarbyback
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wewantourdarbyback should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwewantourdarbyback should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I personally can't see an argument for Prototypes looking more like road cars. They are meant to be full blooded racing cars, form following function, I can see road cars any day of the week.
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Old 8 May 2013, 00:47 (Ref:3244155)   #1532
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^This. The whole idea of the endurance racing prototype class is a class of cars designed and built exclusively and entirely to compete in endurance races---not to help market road cars (the GT class does that) and not to try to look "good" to some small subset of fans. The cars are supposed to be designed and built to be moving so fast it doesn't matter what they look like.

Why not design open-wheel single seaters to look like road cars too? If it is such a good idea? Because single-seaters are supposed to be pure race cars, designed and built only to race. Seems almost silly to expect IndyCars or F1 cars to look more like street cars.

Same situation with sports car prototypes---designed and built to race only. Appearance is not an issue at all.

Form follows function is a form of beauty that only some appreciate, but it is also irrelevant. It is liking designing a fighter aircraft and then compromising the combat effectiveness to make it “prettier.” It would get shot down … like the idea that pure racing cars should look like modified road cars should be.

Check this out, and see if anything there appeals: http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...prototype.aspx
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Old 8 May 2013, 01:02 (Ref:3244156)   #1533
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FordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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bails out after putting in too much money for too little return, and the class dies.
Woah, you mean what happens in top flight Prototypes in Sports Car Racing every decade or two and is inevitably going to happen again to P1 in the future?


Sounds familiar.
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Old 8 May 2013, 04:47 (Ref:3244171)   #1534
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Woah, you mean what happens in top flight Prototypes in Sports Car Racing every decade or two and is inevitably going to happen again to P1 in the future?


Sounds familiar.
It's always a boom-and-bust cycle in racing and there's nothing we can do about it, no matter how long the boom it has to be followed by the bubble bursting in the end.
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Old 8 May 2013, 05:34 (Ref:3244178)   #1535
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Hmmmm.. I think that once again there has been a rush to read and interpret things to the extreme. Most that think the current Shark-finned cars are ugly DO NOT advocate LMP1's looking like road cars. Prototypes have existed for years without looking like road cars....and they were beautiful.
Some think the current abortions should look more like road cars. They are entitled to their opinions. I don’t agree, but between the two (what we have today and the suggested road car look), I think it's a toss-up.
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Old 8 May 2013, 05:38 (Ref:3244180)   #1536
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I have seen many good years in sportscar racing and many lean years but that will never change. As one great period ends, like group C it can take time until the next development produces a new influx of cars
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Old 8 May 2013, 14:21 (Ref:3244342)   #1537
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Are we going to see a "Martini Porsche" in 2014?
http://www.roadandtrack.com/racing/r...tm_source=t.co
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Old 8 May 2013, 14:31 (Ref:3244350)   #1538
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Not at LM, because of France's alcohol advertising laws?
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Old 8 May 2013, 14:34 (Ref:3244352)   #1539
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Ah yes! - I forgot about that.
Oh well; nevermind.

It's a shame really. Martini could have used the fin to advertise their price list.
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Old 8 May 2013, 15:36 (Ref:3244384)   #1540
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Originally Poster by Maelochs
^This. The whole idea of the endurance racing prototype class is a class of cars designed and built exclusively and entirely to compete in endurance races---not to help market road cars (the GT class does that) and not to try to look "good" to some small subset of fans. The cars are supposed to be designed and built to be moving so fast it doesn't matter what they look like.
Do you know why they're called "prototypes", and how they first came about at Le Mans?

Before the war, Le Mans was a race for Grand Tourers, but after the war, manufacturers weren't putting enough cars into production to race them. Instead, they had cars in early stages of development which they insisted to the ACO (and probably truthfully intended) would one day go on sale, but they wanted to test them over 24 hours.

Prototypes have never been just about moving fast. Why do they have covered wheels? Why are they referred to as sportscars? And why does the ACO insist on the cars looking to look as if they could carry a passenger?

Le Mans is, fundamentally, about road relevance. It's its history, it's justification, its soul.

Whether that means they have to look like road cars, is up for debate - but prototypes are not just about going fast.

For me, personally, the cars have moved too far away from road cars. I thought the late 90s GT1/GTP cars struck a nice balance.
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Old 8 May 2013, 15:50 (Ref:3244389)   #1541
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And why does the ACO insist on the cars looking to look as if they could carry a passenger?


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Old 8 May 2013, 17:52 (Ref:3244438)   #1542
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Ah yes! - I forgot about that.
Oh well; nevermind.

It's a shame really. Martini could have used the fin to advertise their price list.
They could still race with the colors , every one would know what it is , much like everyone knows Ferrari is still sponsored by Marlboro cigarettes .

But my feeling is Red Bull . Red Bull sponsor a lot in the VAG group , of which Porsche now is a part , along with the rumor of Mark Webber .
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Old 8 May 2013, 17:54 (Ref:3244440)   #1543
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That would be excellent!
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Old 8 May 2013, 18:09 (Ref:3244442)   #1544
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Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice View Post
Do you know why they're called "prototypes", and how they first came about at Le Mans?

Before the war, Le Mans was a race for Grand Tourers, but after the war, manufacturers weren't putting enough cars into production to race them. Instead, they had cars in early stages of development which they insisted to the ACO (and probably truthfully intended) would one day go on sale, but they wanted to test them over 24 hours.

Prototypes have never been just about moving fast. Why do they have covered wheels? Why are they referred to as sportscars? And why does the ACO insist on the cars looking to look as if they could carry a passenger?

Le Mans is, fundamentally, about road relevance. It's its history, it's justification, its soul.

Whether that means they have to look like road cars, is up for debate - but prototypes are not just about going fast.

For me, personally, the cars have moved too far away from road cars. I thought the late 90s GT1/GTP cars struck a nice balance.
I agree with you, and this is what I was asking.
I think that you misunderstood what I said.
I do not want road cars. What is a road car?
A BMW M3, Corvette, Porsche 911, Viper, Ferrari 458 are road cars,
but the late 90s GT1, Corvette LMP1 Evo, LaFerrari, McLaren P1, Pagani Huayra are not really road cars, beyond some are homologated to the street.
I use LaFerrari, Mc Laren P1, Pagani Huayra only as an example of the form what I want for the LMP1. I do not said that this cars have race in LMP1.
Neither I want that the cars have homologation of street for racing in LMP1.
just look at a picture of an Audi r18 and a Porsche 911 GT1 98, and you will see that I have reason. The Porsche 911 GT1 98 is very much nice that R18.
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Old 8 May 2013, 19:24 (Ref:3244467)   #1545
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but the late 90s GT1, Corvette LMP1 Evo, LaFerrari, McLaren P1, Pagani Huayra are not really road cars, beyond some are homologated to the street.
I use LaFerrari, Mc Laren P1, Pagani Huayra only as an example of the form what I want for the LMP1. I do not said that this cars have race in LMP1.
Neither I want that the cars have homologation of street for racing in LMP1.
just look at a picture of an Audi r18 and a Porsche 911 GT1 98, and you will see that I have reason. The Porsche 911 GT1 98 is very much nice that R18.
SOME are? Aren't they all? You still don't seem to want to understand the different between pure racing car and a road legal super/track car. 911 EVO is one of my favourite racing cars but it is only a half prototype. Look at the actual LMPs of that era, they already started to have some features of current LMPs, raised noses etc (and of course that one dates back to 1993...).
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