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15 Feb 2014, 12:53 (Ref:3368726) | #1 | ||
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Another new touring car ruleset (German Procar Series)
I don't think this was really covered so far in the English speaking media, but the German Procar series is set to phase out the S2000-cars in its first division in favor of cars build to a new homogrown ruleset dubbed "Division 1T". It is for 1.6l turbo charged cars, but at a considerably lower spec and cost than either WTCC TC1 or TC2.
Forced induction systems have to be production based and the ruleset seems to be aimed at subcompact cars, as all the cars that have been announced as in build so far have been Minis, Fiestas and Peugeot 20Xs. There seems to be quite a lot of interest from teams in the new category, so we might for a change see a decent grid in ADAC Procar this year, especially since the cars from the old Mini Trophy will be run in the third division. What I am not sure about is if another 'island' solution really is the way to go or if - in the longterm -it would have been better to coordinate with other series. Also, I am not a big fan of having sub-compacts as the series' future top class, but then, a Fiesta today is not much smaller than a Focus back in the Super Production days - if at all - and I guess getting a Focus down to the required 1020kg baseweight would be kind of expensive. |
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15 Feb 2014, 13:29 (Ref:3368736) | #2 | |
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The touring car situation is difficult in Germany.
I would rather see bigger cars. Do you have some links to websites with more details? |
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15 Feb 2014, 14:03 (Ref:3368745) | #3 | ||
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For some reason, this hasn't been publicized very well.... TCT even wrote that Procar would allow the TC2-spec 1.6l turbo cars in their new category.
The ADAC Procar website has of course some infos: http://www.adac-procar.de/default.as...offen%E2%80%9C as does their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/DTC.AdacProcar?fref=ts If you are a tech-buff you can also have a look at the tech rules themselves: http://www.adac-procar.de/default.as...20Bestimmungen Here's my attempt at piecing together an early entry list for the new category: Dombek/Besaplast - Mini 1.6T (modified endurance car) Wolf Racing - Ford Fiesta Leidinger Motorsport - car unknown so far Heide Motorsport Mini 1.6T Racing for Friends Mini 1.6T MRP Motorsport Peugeot 207 I think there's more, though, as the recent news articles from the Procar organization all sound rather bullish. |
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15 Feb 2014, 14:34 (Ref:3368752) | #4 | |
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they should have adopted NGTC regs and maybe local teams could have build their own cars as well as buying from UK
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15 Feb 2014, 15:06 (Ref:3368762) | #5 | ||
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I think they are targetting considerably lower costs than NGTC, but looking at it as a fan, that might have been a good idea, though there really aren't many available used cars in England at the moment.
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15 Feb 2014, 15:24 (Ref:3368765) | #6 | |
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15 Feb 2014, 15:44 (Ref:3368769) | #7 | ||
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15 Feb 2014, 15:50 (Ref:3368771) | #8 | |
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Yes but the amount of S2000 cars were always low.
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15 Feb 2014, 16:04 (Ref:3368776) | #9 | ||
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They were doing well enough 5 or 7 years ago... not a full-grid of S2000 cars, but in some years they'd had around 30 cars on the grid across three divisions. Not stellar and nowhere near the glory Super Production years with 40+ cars in most races, but still a nice little series.
Things really only went downhill over the last few years when they did away with division 3 and S2000 numbers began to dwindle even further. |
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15 Feb 2014, 19:03 (Ref:3368824) | #10 | ||
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As far as i remember, there were only one other cars group on the grid. Id rather feel bored to see fast S2000 cars running with Ford Fiestas and other sub-compact cars, that are the opposite of spectacular and fast. Of course there should be a cheap class for beginners, but its very uninteresting to see such small and slow cars on the track. |
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15 Feb 2014, 19:05 (Ref:3368826) | #11 | ||
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Is the new class compatible with VLN?
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15 Feb 2014, 20:45 (Ref:3368849) | #12 | ||
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Partially at least, as one team is using their SP2T-spec mini in the new division.
Problem is that SP2T isn't really a class known for huge fields or lots of variety, though the Peugeot 208 GTi from last year's 24h race would make for a nice addition. |
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15 Feb 2014, 22:15 (Ref:3368877) | #13 | ||
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the series went downhill after they lost the tv deal with dsf back in 2005.
quite odd thinking back in 1998 when they used Group N/Super Production Cars they raced at the AVUS and "only" 32 cars where allowed to start due safety reasons, in 2000 the series was at its peak with an average of 40 cars plus 10-15 cars in DTC Light for older cars today they would be happy if they could get 20 cars on the grid. a tv deal would help a lot to find sponsors and would make it more interesting for new teams to join |
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16 Feb 2014, 12:50 (Ref:3369037) | #14 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
Also, the M3s were in the under 2.5l class, whereas the Sierras and Skylines were in the class above. There also was a third division - dominated by the Opel Kadetts- that normally ran separate races. |
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16 Feb 2014, 19:49 (Ref:3369141) | #15 | ||
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Deutsche Tourenwagen Trophäe was a different series which exited until 1996. it had multiply classes including the 2 liter Group N cars, iirc it was the class with the most entires. DTC used simliar cars when it started in 1995, in 1996 a lot of teams moved from DTT to DTC as the costs for the cars were a bit lower and also DTCs popularity grew fast thanks to the live tv coverage on DSF.
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16 Feb 2014, 20:11 (Ref:3369146) | #16 | |||
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Quote:
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16 Feb 2014, 20:47 (Ref:3369153) | #17 | ||
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yes , it was just a 2 liter Group N series from begin on, slighty different from the DTT 2 liter Group N cars. DTC was more interesting and easier to follow for the viewers as it only had one class, DTT had 4 classes iirc.
i wish Procar would go back to a 1 class formula instead of multiple classes. i wonder if there will be any S2000 entires this year Last edited by Metzo; 16 Feb 2014 at 20:52. |
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28 Feb 2014, 22:16 (Ref:3373366) | #18 | ||
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provisional entry list:
Division 1: tba - Wolf Racing - Ford Fiesta ST Reinhard Nehls (GER) - Besaplast Team Dombek - MINI JCW Challenge Johannes Leidinger (GER) - tba - Ford Fiesta ST Matthias Kaul (GER) -RACING TEAM KAUL - Opel Markus Huggler (SUI) - HUGGLER MOTORSPORT - BMW 320i E46 Division 2: tba - ETH Tuning - Peugeot 207 Andreas Rinke (GER) - ETH Tuning - Citroen Saxo VTS Olaf Müller - LAFIA MOTORSPORT - Citroen C2 Maira Müller -LAFIA MOTORSPORT - Citroen C2 Michael Kowalski (GER) - Kowalski Racing - Ford Fiesta Yury Krauchuk (BLR) - GLATZEL RACING - Ford Fiesta ST Ralf Glatzel (GER) -GLATZEL RACING - Ford Fiesta 1,6 16V Division 3: tba - Heide Motorsport - MINI JCW Challenge Bernhard Wagner (GER) - Frensch Power Motorsport - MINI JCW Challenge Thomas Tekaat (GER) - Besaplast Team Dombek - MINI JCW Challenge Henry Littig (GER) - Besaplast Team Dombek - MINI JCW Challenge Steve Kirsch (GER) - Frensch Power Motorsport - MINI JCW Challenge Kai Jordan (GER) - tba - MINI JCW Challenge Michael Heide (GER) - Heide Motorsport - MINI JCW Challenge Lisa Christin Brunner (GER) - IMC Motorsport - MINI JCW Challenge Victoria Fross (GER) - IMC Motorsport - MINI JCW Challenge |
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1 Mar 2014, 15:26 (Ref:3373657) | #19 | |||
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Quote:
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1 Mar 2014, 16:13 (Ref:3373671) | #20 | |
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I think, its not very interesting, to see so many Minis from the Cup inside the Procar-field. They should race in their own race.
At least they are faster than Div. 2 and maybe not very much slower than Div. 1????? |
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1 Mar 2014, 16:46 (Ref:3373687) | #21 | ||
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Well, the Mini series has folded and Procar needs the cars to prop up their field and to spread track rental fees, so there's no way around that for the time being, though I hope that they'll eventually bop some other cars into Div.3.
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1 Mar 2014, 17:57 (Ref:3373710) | #22 | ||
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What a pathetic list. Rikli Honda gone, Engstler BMW gone, Yaco Toyota gone..
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1 Mar 2014, 18:08 (Ref:3373717) | #23 | ||
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Except for Engstler they are all LONG gone... and it still is a provisional entry list, so there will be some more cars to come. Reading through some interviews and articles I'm up to at least three more in Div.1 by now.
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1 Mar 2014, 19:05 (Ref:3373732) | #24 | ||
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By the way - Procar is already running within a race weekend, as far as i know, around ADAC GT Masters (german GT3 championship). And there are also other racing series at this weekend. So maybe only time schedule problems to have a mini cup race too. I think more, that they want to say "we have 40 cars on the grid".... |
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1 Mar 2014, 19:27 (Ref:3373735) | #25 | |||
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I think without these the series' future would really have been in doubt as fields would simply have dwindled away due to the lack of cars and budgets, much of which is actually tied up in Germany's many GT series. I don't think bringing in the Minis had anything to do with cleaning up the weekend schedules, if anything the GT Masters package was suffering from a lack of support races. The Mini series lost the backing from BMW and the teams were left without a place to run, so that's why they joined Procar. Also, for the series it's not so much about having 40 cars or more but about eveb getting out of the teens, something they didn't manage very often (if at all) last year. With track rental fees being what they are that was likely another reason why the series' old class structure wasn't viabke anymore. |
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