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5 May 2015, 00:37 (Ref:3534156) | #2551 | |
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in the 'old days', winning Le Mans was the top goal.
In the 'new days', winning Le Mans is the top goal. |
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5 May 2015, 04:05 (Ref:3534190) | #2552 | |
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According to the pictures of cars (maybe preparing for LM) in their twitter look like high d/f package. Have they decided not to use their low d/f package?
BTW I think their NA V8 engine may have at least 100 ps less power than competitors, which is a big problem. |
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5 May 2015, 16:08 (Ref:3534383) | #2553 | |
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If Mclarem could win in 95', so can Toyota. In 15' However, I don't think that will be the case as they are only running 2 cars against 9 other factory LMP1s, so they would need to be EXTREMELY lucky.
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5 May 2015, 16:25 (Ref:3534393) | #2554 | ||
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I am just glad that Porsche came in to the LMP1 with the petrol engine. Imagine if they didn't, all would be screaming that the rules masively favour diesel cars. |
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5 May 2015, 17:26 (Ref:3534416) | #2555 | |
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The auto industry has done a great job at instilling to the general public that Turbo>No Turbo. In the end the only advantage this engines have over a N/A engine of a similar power rating is low end grunt.
They are not more efficient ( a lot of reasons including massive increase exhaust backpressure, needing richer mixture, and lower CR), they cost more, have more reliability problems, and are more expensive to maintain. The engine was never the problem, and is this year their strongest point in a otherwise very poor package. |
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5 May 2015, 19:17 (Ref:3534444) | #2556 | |
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Recent Toyota roadcar engine development looks like this:
- 1.2 turbo with 36% efficiency - 1.3 NA engine with 38% efficiency - Future Hybrid NA engine with 40% efficiency But the fact is that peak efficiency can be of no use if it's in the range where engine is rarely used. For a race car oversized engine could get you better usable efficiency but it will also add too much weight to the car. If the rules would cut down fuel flows I think Toyota could benefit the most, but this year exactly opposite happened, fuel flow was increased, admitably very little but it was. |
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5 May 2015, 21:52 (Ref:3534517) | #2557 | |||
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Sorry but i can't agree with Davidson... If we account qualifying right now Toyota is more close to 3 sec deficit for Porsche than 1 sec( a lot of work ahead). And how can he say it was 'over-winged' in LM 2014 with that rear 'movable wing' ? ( and Toyota didn't really had a front wing)... Toyota had that advantage which was rather unfair, if the system worked properly or not is another story, but if they lacked top speed(always relative) i think the eyes should be turned at the engine... Also 'reliability' issues arises because the focus specially since last year has been pure speed and worry about 'issues' later... nobody seems to want to be behind and clock a pace, Toyota should know, they started 2014 LM as if qualifying, and Audi only managed to win in spite of problems because of this ability to push all 24 hours long if needed (Diesel facilitates this a lot), they were always on the run to catch up since lap 1, they caused a lot of reliability problems to the competition(after when they finally managed to rest at 2 hours to the end) ... not only for themselfs... ... and 2014 LM was considerable faster than 2013, and this year records of speed and distance can be broken again by a large margin... if that is not focus on speed, can't imagine what could be!... The problem is getting to the end alright... even if crawling... but as long is 'so far so good' i suspect it will be 'pedal to the metal', and this year even more, inclusive for Toyota.. |
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5 May 2015, 22:13 (Ref:3534526) | #2558 | ||
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So a NA, as any other engine can be quite efficient, on its best operating band -> which could not compare favorably to other engine archs ( a turbo as example) in terms of torque/power, on their best operating bands... NA more efficient but less powerful, need to push for more power then can became quite less efficient (a catch22)... of course the 'marketing' only focus on the more rosy numbers... |
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5 May 2015, 22:18 (Ref:3534530) | #2559 | ||
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This is the toughest one for them by far. In 2012 debut not much was expected of them anyway and they didn't make Nissan-promises either |
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5 May 2015, 22:52 (Ref:3534542) | #2560 | |
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They cried to the ACO? More like proved a point about the advantage diesel fuel has. Diesel has an efficiency advantage by quite some margin, probably close to 5%. You cant overcome that in one season, not unless you too use diesel. The same crowd writing off Toyota said tge same thing about Audi last year. Just because theyre off pace in Spa doesnt mean the same will happen at Le Mans. I think theyll be in contention. Maybe not as fast as Porsche in qualifying, but I think itll definitely be a race.
Hiro, the pictures you see on Toyotas twitter are of the high downforce car. Davidson explained the LM car is unique to that track. Plus, those diveplanes werent even used, so they could be just putting the car up for show. |
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5 May 2015, 23:00 (Ref:3534546) | #2561 | ||
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Quote:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107259 Also what Ullrich said there. |
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5 May 2015, 23:24 (Ref:3534551) | #2562 | ||
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By that logic everybody should be on diesel... its an inherent *NATURAL* advantage... and if the FIA/ACO press releases/papers from then to now focus with particular emphases on efficiency, penalizing what is *naturally* more efficient isn't it a gross contradiction ?? ... for an unnatural attempt to balance what is not naturally balanced ?? So it would had been only *natural* top teams on diesel engines... Dr. Ulrich probably had been retired by now... |
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5 May 2015, 23:35 (Ref:3534554) | #2563 | |
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oops .. old story lol
Last edited by hcl123; 5 May 2015 at 23:57. |
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6 May 2015, 00:42 (Ref:3534569) | #2564 | ||
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Quote:
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6 May 2015, 01:14 (Ref:3534577) | #2565 | |
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The Toyota still goes faster down the straights than the Audi. That's the only thing that matters. Despite the dramatic crucifying in this thread, I'm sure we'll all be eating out words or something to that effect.
I think we all have been underestimating how easy it is to look extremely bad. It could be one big thing or many small things to create big problems. For Toyota the aero package looks to have issues because the drivers are understeering out of the track boundaries at every opportunity. Give the Le Mans aero a chance. Toyota will sort the aero out. Last edited by Articus; 6 May 2015 at 01:27. |
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6 May 2015, 01:34 (Ref:3534583) | #2566 | ||
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Kolles also goes faster on straights than the (sprint-)Audi and is close to other non-Porsche P1s too, but that doesn't mean anything if the package doesn't work anywhere else. |
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6 May 2015, 03:16 (Ref:3534595) | #2567 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
Later on in the write up, he explains what Audi were doing, using more fuel to go faster. Since they had the same size fuel tank as the previous year, what other reason could there be for going less laps per stint? Im not trying to argue with you, but I dont see how Toyota were crying for bop when they knew an adjustment was going to be made. Quote:
It should be great for Le Mans, maybe they can fight with Nissan |
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6 May 2015, 07:40 (Ref:3534637) | #2568 | |
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The BoP is locked until post Le Mans now isn't it?
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6 May 2015, 08:49 (Ref:3534659) | #2569 | |
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where did you get that one from? i think there was no similar setup between audi and toyota to compare so far. i too believe toyota will be more competitive at le mans than they were at spa (probably something like silverstone, where they still seemed to be somewhat on pace with porsche and audi), on the other hand the audi seems incredibly quick in race trim. actually, if we look back at all the years audi have not had pole position at le mans or other races, it's surprising in how many of them they have the fastest race lap, and many times, by quite a good margin and usually, faster than their qualifying lap. looking at the ideal le mans lap times last year, audi's ideal race lap is faster even than toyota's ideal qualiyfing lap! i think they know the eyes of aco are on them more than anybody else, since they won le mans so many times so they're the favorites to get slowed down, that's why they don't make any opulent qualifying runs, but in the race, they're almost always the quickest or at least close enough to the fastest car. i'm not sure either porsche or audi have shown all they've got for le mans, i think toyota will improve, but audi and porsche might improve too.
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6 May 2015, 12:50 (Ref:3534714) | #2570 | ||
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__________________
In order to finish first, first you have to finish |
6 May 2015, 14:15 (Ref:3534750) | #2571 | ||
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Not sure if this has been posted before:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118808
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6 May 2015, 17:55 (Ref:3534846) | #2572 | |||
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Quote:
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6 May 2015, 18:15 (Ref:3534852) | #2573 | ||
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__________________
In order to finish first, first you have to finish |
6 May 2015, 18:28 (Ref:3534858) | #2574 | ||
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TOYOTA are really in position to Win Le mans this year
Mind games or just PR stuff, toyota are in the position that Audi was last year the underdog… I don´t know why but…. they will blown us away with their LM package Mr. Rob Leupen is putting the pressure on Audi and Porsche side… and he want them to fight each other to let Toyota do their game Bit this is just a guess Last edited by gustavobamba; 6 May 2015 at 18:34. |
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6 May 2015, 18:48 (Ref:3534863) | #2575 | |
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Ask Autosport, who most likely posed the question!
From back in the prologue, Toyota was only 4kmh down on Porsche's top speed. They were also one of the first to do a 1:39. I dont know if Toyota is keeping their cards close. Apparently they made a very low drag car that wouldnt work so good at Spa. But Anthony also said its a package thats designed just for LM. Those two things give me confidence they should be a lot more competitive. I think every car from the current 3 will be under 3:17 or 3:16. I hope Nissan is there in the sub 3:20's. |
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