Brabham BT21

[marc1]

I have enjoyed reading many of the posts regarding the history of BT21s.

I have BT21-41 (in the UK) and hope to make a start on restoring it soon. It has its original MRD plate and AM chassis (AM number clearly present) with unmodified water rail. The car had been stored away for many years with the last owner.

I understand that BT21-41 was one of 3 cars Peter Westbury F.I.R.S.T. ran as F3s in 67 and that the car migrated to Libre and the British Hillclimb Championship in TC spec. Earlier posts have cited Mac Daghorn in F3, who I believe was one of 3 drivers in F.I.R.S.T with D Bell and Peter Westbury. The car came to me with a separate yellow rear fibreglass wing appearing identical to that fitted to the Westbury BT21 used in the Anerly Trophy Crystal Palace 1970 - 2 images of this can be seen here courtesy of the F3 HRA:
http://www.1000ccf3historicracingass...D=3#ad-image-0
BT21-41 retains the same dark stripe running along the tub centrally in front of the screen.
Ted Walker has kindly provided an image of BT21-41 at Gt Auclum Hillclimb (C S Barrow driving, 1972). The period British Hillclimb Championship stickers and other decals which can be seen on that image remain on the original yellow Specialized Mouldings body tub. It remains in twin cam / Mk5 spec at this time.
If anyone can assist with any additional images or information on this BT21 in period I would be very grateful for any assistance.

[Unit 2 Racing]

I love that high rear wing. I don't remember seeing any F3 cars racing with
high suspension mounted rear wing at that time. If they did race with these high rear wings did they break like the ones in F1 did at that time.

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by marc1

I have enjoyed reading many of the posts regarding the history of BT21s.

I have BT21-41 (in the UK) and hope to make a start on restoring it soon. It has its original MRD plate and AM chassis (AM number clearly present) with unmodified water rail. The car had been stored away for many years with the last owner.

I understand that BT21-41 was one of 3 cars Peter Westbury F.I.R.S.T. ran as F3s in 67 and that the car migrated to Libre and the British Hillclimb Championship in TC spec. Earlier posts have cited Mac Daghorn in F3, who I believe was one of 3 drivers in F.I.R.S.T with D Bell and Peter Westbury. The car came to me with a separate yellow rear fibreglass wing appearing identical to that fitted to the Westbury BT21 used in the Anerly Trophy Crystal Palace 1970 - 2 images of this can be seen here courtesy of the F3 HRA:
http://www.1000ccf3historicracingass...D=3#ad-image-0
BT21-41 retains the same dark stripe running along the tub centrally in front of the screen.
Ted Walker has kindly provided an image of BT21-41 at Gt Auclum Hillclimb (C S Barrow driving, 1972). The period British Hillclimb Championship stickers and other decals which can be seen on that image remain on the original yellow Specialized Mouldings body tub. It remains in twin cam / Mk5 spec at this time.
If anyone can assist with any additional images or information on this BT21 in period I would be very grateful for any assistance.

1968 would be the car of Alan Deacon [fitted with t/c] Autosport 8.12.67 p. 966 ex FIRST Daghorn and also Motoring News 16.11.67 p. 17. The other two FIRST cars are accounted for in 1968 with chassis observations of Bell's car with Jeff Holdrup and Westbury's with Davey Powell.
Could you tell us what the AM number is please?

[dirksx1]

I am trying once again to build a history of a BT21 AM 240. I purchased it in 1988-89 in California where is was used as a cart racer, it has basically been sitting in my garage since then. Frame has been restored, and am in process of sorting our what I will need to out it back together.

I was told it could be a late 1967-68 BT 21B or C. I have also confirmed that Peter Boyd once owned it but he does not recall any details of prior ownership.

Can anyone provide any details of prior history (before 1987-88) of this BT21. Any assistance provided would be greatly appreciated.

Dirksx1
Vancouver Canada

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by dirksx1

I am trying once again to build a history of a BT21 AM 240. I purchased it in 1988-89 in California where is was used as a cart racer, it has basically been sitting in my garage since then. Frame has been restored, and am in process of sorting our what I will need to out it back together.

I was told it could be a late 1967-68 BT 21B or C. I have also confirmed that Peter Boyd once owned it but he does not recall any details of prior ownership.

Can anyone provide any details of prior history (before 1987-88) of this BT21. Any assistance provided would be greatly appreciated.

Dirksx1
Vancouver Canada

Was Peter Boyd able to tell you when he had it or roughly where in the country he bought it or whether it had SCCA log books with it when he had it or whether he bought it from an Autoweek advert? Do you know the owners in between Boyd and you? Any clue might help as we might have "orphan" data in our records that might tie up with something. If we know where and when an advert appeared, that might give us another owner.

[dirksx1]

I will get in contact with Peter Boyd and see whether he can provide any additional details. Unfortunately I don't know the previous owner and was not provided with any type of log book. Best I recall it was used for oval racing in California and had an aluminium block V8 installed..

Engine is long gone but have secured a replacement Lotus Ford Twin Cam as I am quite sure it was orginally a used for Formuiula B - either a BT21A or C. I have the original Hewland transmission and all of the other bits and pieces.

I will let you know what Peter says.

[f3guide]

some information about BT21B/22

1968: new to Jürg Dubler
1969: supposed to be owned by Joakim Bonnier, but that´s not sure
1970: Heinz Hartmann
1971: Felix Martin

later sold to Heinz Schreiber and now in restored condition owned by Klaus Rosshuber

[T65]

Has anyone information on a Tucker F4 1.3 litre which was based on a converted BT21B. Believed raced by Susan T P Jamison?

[Susantpjamieson]

What would you like to know? I might be able to help?

[owrforever]

Dick Smothers in chassis BT21A-4 at Road America, 1968.

[dirksx1]

Ted,

you seem to have some detailed info associating AM with Brabham Chassis numbers. would you have anything on AM 240. I own that one and am restoring it and also trying to recreate its history. Car has been in my garage for 25 years, it was purchased in California in 1989 through a third party from Peter V. Boyd..

Dirk

[dirksx1]

Does anyone remember selling a BT21 to Peter V Boyd sometime in the middle to late 80's.
It was or became shortly thereafter became an oval cart racer with small block V8 which I purchased in 1989 from California. Am trying to establish its history. Given the transaxle with it is an H5 model, I am now assuming it was a 1967 BT21A. Am trying to work back so I can establish the original Brabham chassis number by using the transaxle and frame numbers. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Dirk S.

[dirksx1]

Steve Wilkinson and Allen brown are trying to help determine the chassis numbers of my car frame # AM 240. I read in previous message some years back that there are some log books in existence that cross reference the official Brabham chassis number with the engine and transaxle number. These records apparently did not however track the frame number. Allen or Steve are trying to secure access and do a cross reference. If anyone else has access to the original log books or copies of them, please respond so that I can supply my transaxle # and hopefully establish the chassis number of the car. I can now definitively confirm that Peter V Boyd owned the car before I did and had registered it in 1989 with the California Brabham register managed by John Hafkenschiel.

Any help in getting this car history sorted out would be gratefully accepted.

[tolissoff]

Hi guys.
Has anyone got information on this F3 chassis BT21?
I think it is AM206 but could be AM208. Pretty hard to read.

Have had it described as a Cassegrain car for 67 and Frank Williams for 68, but elsewhere on this thread, chassis plate #35 is Cassegrain and #36 is down as a Frank Williams car.

It moved into Canada/USA 69 ?
Appreciate any clarifications that you may be able to provide
Cheers
TonyO

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by tolissoff

Hi guys.
Has anyone got information on this F3 chassis BT21?
I think it is AM206 but could be AM208. Pretty hard to read.

Have had it described as a Cassegrain car for 67 and Frank Williams for 68, but elsewhere on this thread, chassis plate #35 is Cassegrain and #36 is down as a Frank Williams car.

It moved into Canada/USA 69 ?
Appreciate any clarifications that you may be able to provide
Cheers
TonyO

Welcome Tony

Both those cars went to Canada and BT21/35 at least can be traced a good way into the 1970s. I won't comment on the AM number online but if you want to contact me at allen@oldracingcars.com, I'll be able to say more.

Can you tell us the recent history of the car? Where is it now? How far can you trace it back?

[tolissoff]

Is there a reference source for the original chassis frame numbers of Brabhams?

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by tolissoff

Is there a reference source for the original chassis frame numbers of Brabhams?

No there is no record of frame numbers, and by the time frames were transported from Arch Motors, stacked and re-stracked and then built up they were very much in random order. It is possible to sometimes see a sequence and make a guess as to when they were built but that's all.

[tolissoff]

Thanks Andrew.
Bit of a shame but that's how the cookie crumbles.
Appreciate the reply.

[dirksx1]

I have posted in the past about my BT21. I am still in the process of recreating the car's history and to that end have recently made some progress. I now have confirmation of the car's history going back to 1973 when it was purchased by Kenny Hamilton of Boise Idaho. Kenney reconfigured the car as an oval racer nicknames "Superfly" . I have talked to kenney and compare pictures of his car against those I had and confirmed we are talking about the same car. Kenney then sold it in late 1975 to Vern Hollowpeter of Ontario Oregon and it eventually went to Peter Boyd whom I purchased it from in 1988.

Unfortunately Kenney does not remember who he purchased it from but there is a possibility it was from Gary Gove who raced a BT 21 in the early 70's. He had a BT21 that he purchased from a Doctor W T Monson. The timing and location of the various owners seem correct, so perhaps it may be the same car.

Can anyone out there help me get into contact with Gary Gove or remember remember this BT 21 in the early 70"s.

[rkshanahan]

Can anyone help with the chassis number of the BT21 that belonged to Rex Twaits or Gary Jarlsen in the US back in the 1980's?

Regards,

Rob

[mikestow]

Looking through this thread on the BT21,I cant find out what ever happened to my Ex Ian Walker Team Celerity Brabham BT21 which I bought off Mike Cornwall ,through MRE,in early 1969.As per this thread it was Chassis no46,which replaced #19 which was tragically written off.I was buying a new BT28,which Graham Coaker was arranging with MRD for me to have cheaper partly unfinished,as he could get it stove enamelled plus get all the suspension cadplated etc.I therefore let him drive this car at the last Silverstone GP Circuit F3 Race that year,which was his last F3 race,having sold his own BT21B to Bert Hawthorne.He had become Production Director at MARCH,so had effectively retired from racing himself.Having received my BT28 around September 69,the BT21 was sold to MRE,after which I lost contact with it??It was modded to BT21B spec top radius arm position,and had special drive shafts that had spiggot bullets that fitted inside the doughnuts to locate the hardy spicer centrally and made for a much quicker in and out of the gearbox/doughnut couplings.It may have gone abroad ,but records of this time as non existant now from Jim Gleave,who ended up running MRE.Any ideas???

[Ben Dillon]

Hi all, I'm writing a piece for an Australian classic car magazine on two BT-21 and would love to know if anyone has info regarding these two cars?

AM245 and AM283 are the chassis numbers and I'm just trying to establish race and owner histories for both. The current owner has supplied me with some information which I want to verify and add to if possible through those with specific knowledge on this forum and elsewhere.

I know that Fred Opert took 245 to the US, possibly in 1965(?) but after that it's a ghost until the current owner bought it as a stripped down project.

Particularly interested to know the racing story of 283 as it was used by Bob Illich in Europe pre-1968 when he bought it back to Australia where it has been since.

Any info would be fantastic and I'm enjoying the wealth and depth of commentary reading through this and other posts.
Cheers

[anowoc]

Hello, New to this site. I have a BT21 Formula B that I think that was raced in New York when new. The serial number on the dash is missing. It does have a good AM stamp on the frame. Dumb question. Is there a way to match a chassis number to the Arch Motors number?

[Andrew Fellowes]

Short answer no, there are no cross reference records.
However if you would care to share the AM number either here on the forum or if you'd prefer by PM to me then there is a small chance that it could be narrowed down a bit. Are there any numbers on the roll hoop? Furthermore do you have any idea who the owners have been as that might help too.

[275 GTB-4]

What Andrew said...also, you could contact:

http://www.oldracingcars.com/fb/