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Old 1 Mar 2017, 23:49 (Ref:3715683)   #1701
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Apparently Pirelli have a problem producing tyres that recover once overheated. I found this very interesting:

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/op...roblem-another

"There is a theory out there that the chemical constituents needed to get the rubber liquid enough to be extrudeable (as in toothpaste from a tube) in Pirelli’s highly automated Istanbul plant are the very ingredients that cause the tyre to permanently harden when it becomes too hot. The chemical links that allow the polymers to be long (and the rubber therefore bendy) break down. If this is indeed the case, then the only way to prevent the phenomenon whilst retaining this production process would be to make a tyre with a less stressed contact patch – either by increasing the size of the contact patch or making the compound tough enough that it never got close to the ‘frying’ threshold. Or both. But that would then risk making for a tyre with performance that didn’t degrade at all…
That might be exactly what we now have."
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Old 2 Mar 2017, 15:30 (Ref:3715840)   #1702
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And the drivers are saying that despite the improvement in wet tyres, inters overheat too quickly. And Pirelli say that they may need to make more changes to wet tyre to get to the standard this is required
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Old 18 May 2017, 16:42 (Ref:3734285)   #1703
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Pirelli to drop the 'hard' compound option for the British GP.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...ish-gp-907313/

after listening to concerns of the drivers and teams, Pirelli have acted in very quick fashion to address the teams' issues and without the usual very public recriminations from either side...kudos to Pirelli and the new F1!
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Old 18 May 2017, 17:09 (Ref:3734289)   #1704
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post
Apparently Pirelli have a problem producing tyres that recover once overheated. I found this very interesting:

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/op...roblem-another

"There is a theory out there that the chemical constituents needed to get the rubber liquid enough to be extrudeable (as in toothpaste from a tube) in Pirelli’s highly automated Istanbul plant are the very ingredients that cause the tyre to permanently harden when it becomes too hot. The chemical links that allow the polymers to be long (and the rubber therefore bendy) break down. If this is indeed the case, then the only way to prevent the phenomenon whilst retaining this production process would be to make a tyre with a less stressed contact patch – either by increasing the size of the contact patch or making the compound tough enough that it never got close to the ‘frying’ threshold. Or both. But that would then risk making for a tyre with performance that didn’t degrade at all…
That might be exactly what we now have."
Or maybe look for a different supplier with a superior production process.
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Old 18 May 2017, 17:14 (Ref:3734292)   #1705
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I am glad things are being sorted out the right way in this new F1, it's gaining more credibility
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Old 18 May 2017, 17:29 (Ref:3734300)   #1706
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
Pirelli to drop the 'hard' compound option for the British GP.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...ish-gp-907313/

after listening to concerns of the drivers and teams, Pirelli have acted in very quick fashion to address the teams' issues and without the usual very public recriminations from either side...kudos to Pirelli and the new F1!
For the general viewer, this seems like a good time to shift each tyre up one grade, so the medium is now called 'hard' and ultra becomes 'super'? It feels wrong to have 3 types of soft tyre, and no hard.
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Old 28 May 2018, 10:40 (Ref:3825198)   #1707
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On the back of news regarding Pirelli going back to naming the tyres as soft, medium and hard from next year, there are rumours that low profile 18 inch tyres are also back on the menu for 2021 onwards (or maybe even as soon as 2020).

Will this entice Michelin back into F1? I personally would like to see Michelin and Pirelli as tyre choices. We need a tyre competition.





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Old 29 May 2018, 21:50 (Ref:3825559)   #1708
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The constant playing with tyre compounds is tiresom and not fair...
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Old 29 May 2018, 23:03 (Ref:3825568)   #1709
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On the back of news regarding Pirelli going back to naming the tyres as soft, medium and hard from next year, there are rumours that low profile 18 inch tyres are also back on the menu for 2021 onwards (or maybe even as soon as 2020).

Will this entice Michelin back into F1? I personally would like to see Michelin and Pirelli as tyre choices. We need a tyre competition.
Well according to this, https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...names-for-2019, Pirelli are keeping the current number of compounds but the names like ultrasoft and supersoft will go and tyres will just be called hard, medium or soft. Do they really need all those compounds?
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Old 30 May 2018, 05:28 (Ref:3825589)   #1710
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Well according to this, https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...names-for-2019, Pirelli are keeping the current number of compounds but the names like ultrasoft and supersoft will go and tyres will just be called hard, medium or soft. Do they really need all those compounds?
I personally think it is a good thing to have that many compounds, as long as Pirelli use them in such a way that contributes to racing and strategy.

Ideally at each venue, the three compounds available would perform as follows:

Soft - fastest tyre, but will only complete a maximum of 25-30% of race distance.
Medium - all round tyre, noticeably slower than the soft - but capable of running about 50% of the race distance.
Hard - slowest tyre, but capable of running 75% of the race distance.

Then - allow teams to run any choice of compounds, including not forcing them to race on their qualifying tyre.
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Old 31 May 2018, 11:12 (Ref:3825846)   #1711
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I personally think it is a good thing to have that many compounds, as long as Pirelli use them in such a way that contributes to racing and strategy.

Ideally at each venue, the three compounds available would perform as follows:

Soft - fastest tyre, but will only complete a maximum of 25-30% of race distance.
Medium - all round tyre, noticeably slower than the soft - but capable of running about 50% of the race distance.
Hard - slowest tyre, but capable of running 75% of the race distance.

Then - allow teams to run any choice of compounds, including not forcing them to race on their qualifying tyre.

Pirelli currently have seven slick tyre compounds: pink hypersoft, purple ultrasoft, red supersoft, yellow soft, medium white, ice blue hard, orange superhard.

Say they do run three tyres at each venue:

Soft - fastest tyre, but will only complete a maximum of 25-30% of race distance
Medium - all round tyre, noticeably slower than the soft - but capable of running about 50% of the race distance.
Hard - slowest tyre, but capable of running 75% of the race distance.

How then would it be possible to get the soft tyre, say purple ultrasoft at the Spanish GP, to last 25-30% of race distance and the soft tyre, yellow soft at the French GP, to also last last 25-30% of the race distance, the same applies to the other compounds?
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Old 31 May 2018, 11:58 (Ref:3825859)   #1712
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How then would it be possible to get the soft tyre, say purple ultrasoft at the Spanish GP, to last 25-30% of race distance and the soft tyre, yellow soft at the French GP, to also last last 25-30% of the race distance, the same applies to the other compounds?
The first thing to consider is that Pirelli have made changes to the compounds in every season since 2011, so it is entirely likely they will make a change for 2019 too.

The Autosport article is not clear over what compounds will be used for 2019:
'The current range of compounds is set to be kept [...] Isola expects Pirelli to have "five or six" tyre compounds to use across the 2019 season'

So what Pirelli would need to do (in my proposal) would be to ensure that there is enough 'gap' between each compound - then select the range of compound(s) for each track that matches closest to the preferred characteristics.

E.g - the range of compounds are nominated as A,B,C,D,E and F (if 6 are chosen). These are designed so that from the hardest required compound (F) each drop in hardness reduces life by (approx. 1/3.)

The highest wearing track on the calendar (I think) is Spain - so compound F would be 'Hard' and would last 75% of race distance.
The 'Medium' for this track would be E, and would last 50% race distance.
The 'Soft' for this track would be C, and would last 22% of race distance.

On the other end of the scale, the lowest wearing track would be Monaco - so working from the softest tyre, compound A would be 'Soft' and last 22% of race distance.
The 'Medium' for Monaco would be C, and would last 50% of race distance.
The 'Hard' would be D, and would last 75% of race distance.
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Old 31 May 2018, 12:01 (Ref:3825860)   #1713
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Pirelli were a bit behind when they came back in 2011, but they should make changes in 2019. It’s not what I like to hear, when they are planning to add more compounds. Just keep Hard, Medium, Soft, Supers and Ultras. I don’t think anything radical is needed, why should it? Why change what you don’t need to?
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Old 31 May 2018, 16:48 (Ref:3825893)   #1714
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The first thing to consider is that Pirelli have made changes to the compounds in every season since 2011, so it is entirely likely they will make a change for 2019 too.

The Autosport article is not clear over what compounds will be used for 2019:
'The current range of compounds is set to be kept [...] Isola expects Pirelli to have "five or six" tyre compounds to use across the 2019 season'

So what Pirelli would need to do (in my proposal) would be to ensure that there is enough 'gap' between each compound - then select the range of compound(s) for each track that matches closest to the preferred characteristics.

E.g - the range of compounds are nominated as A,B,C,D,E and F (if 6 are chosen). These are designed so that from the hardest required compound (F) each drop in hardness reduces life by (approx. 1/3.)

The highest wearing track on the calendar (I think) is Spain - so compound F would be 'Hard' and would last 75% of race distance.
The 'Medium' for this track would be E, and would last 50% race distance.
The 'Soft' for this track would be C, and would last 22% of race distance.

On the other end of the scale, the lowest wearing track would be Monaco - so working from the softest tyre, compound A would be 'Soft' and last 22% of race distance.
The 'Medium' for Monaco would be C, and would last 50% of race distance.
The 'Hard' would be D, and would last 75% of race distance.
With F1 pushing for cheaper, simpler engines, a cost cap and standardised parts to bring individual team budgets under control, why not do the same with tyres? If F1 really needs to have several compounds, why not use just three: a hard, medium and soft compound, instead of the plethora they have already? IndyCar only uses two compounds and they race on all sorts of surfaces.
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Old 31 May 2018, 17:19 (Ref:3825897)   #1715
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Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
With F1 pushing for cheaper, simpler engines, a cost cap and standardised parts to bring individual team budgets under control, why not do the same with tyres? If F1 really needs to have several compounds, why not use just three: a hard, medium and soft compound, instead of the plethora they have already? IndyCar only uses two compounds and they race on all sorts of surfaces.
I agree that F1 doesn't need that many compounds.
But I feel that if they are going to have that many, turn it into a positive and use the range to improve the racing.
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Old 31 May 2018, 19:24 (Ref:3825915)   #1716
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Just when you thought tires were going to become less and less of a talking point...
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Old 31 May 2018, 20:13 (Ref:3825919)   #1717
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Why can't they just have 3 compounds; soft, medium, hard and be done with it?
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Old 31 May 2018, 20:17 (Ref:3825920)   #1718
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Why can't they just have 3 compounds; soft, medium, hard and be done with it?
Exactly.
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Old 4 Jun 2018, 09:31 (Ref:3826700)   #1719
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wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
It looks like 18 inch wheels will be part of the new rules package in 2021 or possibly 2020.
The earlier date is because Pirelli's contract is up for 2020 and a new supplier would not have to make 13 inch tyres for one season.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/136501

I would like to see the larger tyres as 13s belong in the 1970's
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Old 4 Jun 2018, 12:05 (Ref:3826719)   #1720
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It looks like 18 inch wheels will be part of the new rules package in 2021 or possibly 2020.
The earlier date is because Pirelli's contract is up for 2020 and a new supplier would not have to make 13 inch tyres for one season.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/136501

I would like to see the larger tyres as 13s belong in the 1970's
Cue moaning from teams about having to do a complete suspension re-design. It might actually throw up some packaging issues because they will have to have much more suspension movement to account for the lack of spring provided in the shallower tyre.
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Old 4 Jun 2018, 13:42 (Ref:3826740)   #1721
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wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The smart ones will be recruiting Audi & Porsche suspension engineers who might now be looking for a new challenge.
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Old 4 Jun 2018, 17:19 (Ref:3826803)   #1722
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Bigger tyres increase the mechanical grip which is good for racing
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Old 5 Jun 2018, 12:30 (Ref:3826937)   #1723
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The first thing to consider is that Pirelli have made changes to the compounds in every season since 2011, so it is entirely likely they will make a change for 2019 too.

The Autosport article is not clear over what compounds will be used for 2019:
'The current range of compounds is set to be kept [...] Isola expects Pirelli to have "five or six" tyre compounds to use across the 2019 season'

So what Pirelli would need to do (in my proposal) would be to ensure that there is enough 'gap' between each compound - then select the range of compound(s) for each track that matches closest to the preferred characteristics.

E.g - the range of compounds are nominated as A,B,C,D,E and F (if 6 are chosen). These are designed so that from the hardest required compound (F) each drop in hardness reduces life by (approx. 1/3.)

The highest wearing track on the calendar (I think) is Spain - so compound F would be 'Hard' and would last 75% of race distance.
The 'Medium' for this track would be E, and would last 50% race distance.
The 'Soft' for this track would be C, and would last 22% of race distance.

On the other end of the scale, the lowest wearing track would be Monaco - so working from the softest tyre, compound A would be 'Soft' and last 22% of race distance.
The 'Medium' for Monaco would be C, and would last 50% of race distance.
The 'Hard' would be D, and would last 75% of race distance.
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Originally Posted by ASCII Man View Post
Why can't they just have 3 compounds; soft, medium, hard and be done with it?
Because it's Formula 1 so they will have Hard, Medium and Soft at each track. But so the commentators can be the pedantic sort, they will make Pirelli make 7 compounds. The commentary teams can tell you how this week's medium is last week's soft tire and the tires next race will all be softer than the softest tire this week. And we can develop a tire softness drinking game around how often the commentator of your choice describes in detail how soft the tires are relative the others and all be hammered by the final stops. Then all the races will get great rankings as we'll all vote drunk.

It's a conniving and sinister plan from Liberty Media to sell more beer and get better rankings of each race, or at least make fans forget the boring races faster.
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Old 5 Jun 2018, 12:34 (Ref:3826938)   #1724
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But it seems all these compounds is not what fans want. They want things kept simpler and this seems to be another answer to a question no one asked
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Old 5 Jun 2018, 15:52 (Ref:3826971)   #1725
chillibowl
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personally i like a large range of ever evolving compounds, different selections for every race, and the multiple strategies they allow for.

i do agree that hearing the commentators blather on about it is tiresome as its not really a complicated thing so there is no need to treat the viewing public like imbeciles. i could do without that part of it.

but if they do decide to limit the number i really hope they dont call one of them 'hard'.

maybe a weird thing to say but i feel like that word is just plain contrary to use as racing terminology.

granted their 'hard' tire is much much softer then my road car tire but every time someone fixes a set of hards on the little voice in my head screams 'why hard - go softer and try doing some racing for a change'.
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