IMSA DPi Discussion

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by YZFrider

^^^^Thank you for that

I second that! Awesome stuff!

[Matt]

Job opening for a designer/engineer for a motorsports project at a "confidential" plant in Belvidere, Illinois.

That's the FIAT/Chrysler plant.

They currently just build the Jeep Cherokee there, and they've started construction on a testing facility. Perfect cover for an Indycar or DPi project. Someone I'm close with is adamant it's an Alfa DPi project.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Matt

Someone I'm close with is adamant it's an Alfa DPi project.

Oh, yes! That would be visually fantastic. I imagine it would be with a big, farty turbo V6. But visually, I hope it is a stunner!



Or it could look like that.

Chris

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Matt

Job opening for a designer/engineer for a motorsports project at a "confidential" plant in Belvidere, Illinois.

That's the FIAT/Chrysler plant.

They currently just build the Jeep Cherokee there, and they've started construction on a testing facility. Perfect cover for an Indycar or DPi project. Someone I'm close with is adamant it's an Alfa DPi project.

Could be anything. If it's a jeep factory it could be something that involves those types of vehicles. One would like to see a dpi but a testing facility at a Jeep factory? Any off-road motorsports Chrysler is involved in?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TF110

Could be anything.

Including a DPi project.







L.P.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Including a DPi project.







L.P.

I thought that was apparent from my post.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Including a DPi project.







L.P.

That would be awesome but given Dodge's focus on drag racing, do you think it's likely?

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

That would be awesome but given Dodge's focus on drag racing, do you think it's likely?

Alfa... Nevermind, I've been on the bourbon.

[broadrun96]

Alfa is bringing the Guilietta TCR car to both TCR fields so I'd believe that over a DPi project. It sounds like they are serious about bringing Alfa back and I'm thinking hipsters would think they're cool with a new hatchback.

[canaglia]

Maybe am I wrong, but alfa romeo giulietta tcr is made by romeo ferraris, an italian tuner, with poor (or nothing at all) effort by alfa romeo.
But anyway, a DPi program is really really unlikely for any FCA brand to me.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Maybe am I wrong, but alfa romeo giulietta tcr is made by romeo ferraris, an italian tuner, with poor (or nothing at all) effort by alfa romeo.
But anyway, a DPi program is really really unlikely for any FCA brand to me.

Believe most of the TCR chassis are built by tuners but it sounded like Alfa wanted to push the car in racing before its US release. Providing support would be a good way to improve the car, assuming the homologation allows that.

But DPi sounds like a step too far for FCA.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Believe most of the TCR chassis are built by tuners but it sounded like Alfa wanted to push the car in racing before its US release. Providing support would be a good way to improve the car, assuming the homologation allows that.

But DPi sounds like a step too far for FCA.

Let's say that FCA doesn't need a "win on sunday, sell on monday" racing program in USA, being the most successful market for ferrari and maserati.
Alfa romeo released giulia with the goal to break the 3 german manufacturers hegemony in luxury sedan segment; guess they are aiming more for europe than USA... but who knows.
An alfa DPi program could be planned and done in 3 months....
bring a dallara lmp2 chassis, modify rear subframes and suspensions to fit the 488 gt3 engine, change nose/headlights and you get a brand new car for team risi.

[Accident]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Believe most of the TCR chassis are built by tuners but it sounded like Alfa wanted to push the car in racing before its US release. Providing support would be a good way to improve the car, assuming the homologation allows that.

But DPi sounds like a step too far for FCA.

Most are factory customer racing efforts actually.

Alfa - Romeo Ferraris
Audi - Factory
Ford - FRD
Honda - Factory (JAS)
Hyundai - Factory
Kia - STARD (factory approved, dunno how much assistance)
Opel - Factory
Peugeot - Factory(?)
Seat - Factory
Subaru - Top Run
VW - Factory (built at Seat)

[HORNDAWG]

ACO allow Joker for Dallara, Ligier and Riley/Multimatic. Seems that all will get aero in both Le Mans and Sprint configurations and the R/M Mk. 30 probably getting other chassis allowances. These upgrades will also be applied to the DPi where applicable. The upgrades will be free to all teams/chassis.

https://www.lemans.org/en/news/lmp2-...for-2018/47565





L.P.

[Coach Ep]

Well done ACO/Oreca!

[HORNDAWG]

A little sour grapes from Hugues de Chaunac about the upgrade which has always been part of the formula. ELMS is the most obvious example to draw from as there are 3 of the 4 cars represented there. The 4 chassis do run in IWSC but not all of them are at their base P2 configuration.











L.P.

[AoB Special Stage]

Well, you could've burnt up your own joker if you'd wanted, sir.

[Akrapovic]

I don't believe you can do it at any time. It's got to be approved by the ACO and because of a performance deficit.

Worlds smallest violin for Hugues. We all knew this was a possibility - in fact most of us predicted this would be the case. And we knew what the ACOs reaction would be, and that's exactly what happened. Whilst we should never be in this position, the ACO has at least done what they said they would do.

We all know the Oreca is the best chassis. Sometimes others get close, but none can match it consistently. The Dallara can do so in medium-high downforce, but it has a very small operating window to fit into. And if they did allow Oreca to update then it'd be pointless, as they'd all move forward and Oreca would still be ahead, and we'd have spent money for nothing.

[carbsmith]

No, they can't. That's why he's peeved. In ELMS there was a Dallara on the podium every race but RBR and the wins were split 2/2/1 anyways. The only car that's uncompetitive is the Riley, ORECA is just more sorted across track types, an advantage that probably would have naturally eroded from everyone using non-BoP'd jokers.

[AoB Special Stage]

If they get shafted in '18, they can just use theirs then and dominate '19 and on.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

No, they can't. That's why he's peeved. In ELMS there was a Dallara on the podium every race but RBR and the wins were split 2/2/1 anyways. The only car that's uncompetitive is the Riley, ORECA is just more sorted across track types, an advantage that probably would have naturally eroded from everyone using non-BoP'd jokers.

Oreca is leagues ahead of other cars. The ACO has the data to back it up. Using team results from just the ELMS isn't fair. There's no other car running in the WEC besides Oreca's, and that's because it's the best package. Look at Le Mans, every car was behind the Oreca. Maybe the Dallara had better top speed, but they were a lot slower in lap time. A Ligier entered at Spa's WEC round and was nowhere. Oreca has no reason to cry about this. Their car has more sales than any p2 and I wouldn't be suprised if it's twice the amount of the other's combined. A monopoly on an equalized class is never good. The same complaint was made with WTR's Cadillac in DPi.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

No, they can't. That's why he's peeved. In ELMS there was a Dallara on the podium every race but RBR and the wins were split 2/2/1 anyways. The only car that's uncompetitive is the Riley, ORECA is just more sorted across track types, an advantage that probably would have naturally eroded from everyone using non-BoP'd jokers.

I don't think there is such a thing as a non BoP'd joker though? This is the joker that was talked about at the start. The cars are homologated and can't be changed. You need the ACO to ok an update, and if they don't then tough. Strictly speaking it isn't a BoP as performance has to be gained through development, not just having weight taken out.

Race results at face value don't tell the true story. The Dallara may have been on the podium at Spa, but it had a slower average lap time (2:09.8 compared with Oreca 2:08.9, Ligier 2:09.1) than the other cars and only got a podium because the team executed the strategy well. The Dallara can be fast, but only on very specific circumstances as it has a tiny operating window.

The Dallara was unable to to update just one aero kit as well, as the stability problems it has comes from a shared part. So the Dallara had to do an all or nothing.

https://drracing.wordpress.com/

I highly recommend DrRacing blog for some in depth analysis. There's some great stuff which basically concludes the Oreca has a significant advantage in most areas.

[Coach Ep]

Btw, this is much more ACO regulated series stuff than DPi (or even IMSA).

[chernaudi]

It should be noted that under this Dallara can also update their sprint kit, something they initially weren't going to be allowed to do by the ACO.

And within context of this thread, it means that ESM and Cadillac will probably have to update their DPIs. This is due to an agreement between IMSA and the ACO that allows DPI teams to get the same updates as the ACO spec cars.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Btw, this is much more ACO regulated series stuff than DPi (or even IMSA).

No it is not. All P2s that run in IWSC are directly affected by this, as well as any part of 3 of the 4 DPis, that are not already altered via the DPi conversion .




L.P.