[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by trickyd

Then, if they wanted to, McLaren/Porsche/Mercedes/Aston Martin/Ferrari can race a car based on their hybrid hypercar. They could be allowed to make it longer and wider up to a limit, add a wing/diffuser and some cooling/aero ducts and cutaways.

Considering the amount teeth pulling it took just to get the three road cars tested side-by-side-by-side, I suspect the holy trinity wouldn't participate. And Merc's money is tied up elsewhere.

Originally Posted by trickyd

In an ideal world these two classes would then mix it at the front in a similar way that you had the Joest Porsche and Courage's mixing it with the works GT1 cars in the mid to late 90's. Then at least when the manufacturers take their toys away after a year or two you'd have a top class left.

Except that was never the intention. GT1 was never supposed to compete with the prototypes, but LMP675 was supposed to compete for wins overall. ACO doesn't have a great history with this bit.

[TzeiTzei]

Styling cues or road car look = BoP. There is no way around it.

[TRuss]

It doesn't matter what they look like, there will probably be a BoP/EoT. Either that or it will basically be a spec series. I'll take the former.

[TF110]

They don't have to bop it. Just stick with the fuel flow and set up a rule of dimensions and all that. The rear diffuser is the same already, and the front wing/splitter is the most popular area of gains to be made. The rest of the current cars look pretty close to each other so maybe that is the area that isn't of too much importance.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

Styling cues or road car look = BoP. There is no way around it.

To an extent. I don't think they really want more than NASCAR style aero matching though. Which is appealing to the manufacturers because they don't have to explain why 50% of their budget is for hidden aero widgets that will never be used on a road car but sucks for people like me.

[TRuss]

Like I mentioned earlier, we don't know what they want. We don't even know if if they know, what they want. All of this speculation is pointless.

[TF110]

I just hope it's not bop or anything dealing with more spec parts than currently used.

[TRuss]

I imagine most all of us do. That hardly ever seems to matter though.

[hondafan37]

A very good renderer Marco Van Overbeeke has set to work on the latest and greatest hypercars, like Porsche 918 Spyder, Mercedes-AMG Project One, Koenigsegg Agera RS, Ferrari FXX-K EVO, Aston Martin Valkyrie and the McLaren Senna to imagine the future scene of the ACO GTP/GT1.

https://drivetribe.com/p/bAW7cF5CQV-...Tr6FSgRV0g4Sow

[YZFrider]

That article got my neurons firing...factory teams enter hypercars and privateers with purpose-built prototype cars. like now albiet upgraded to meet 2020 rules/regs with optional road car styling cues

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

A very good renderer Marco Van Overbeeke has set to work on the latest and greatest hypercars, like Porsche 918 Spyder, Mercedes-AMG Project One, Koenigsegg Agera RS, Ferrari FXX-K EVO, Aston Martin Valkyrie and the McLaren Senna to imagine the future scene of the ACO GTP/GT1.

https://drivetribe.com/p/bAW7cF5CQV-...Tr6FSgRV0g4Sow

Not terribly informative. Side views alone give very little.

[TRuss]

They look like dumb downed versions of the road cars. As exotic as the road cars are, I'd like for racing cars to be that much more exotic. Something that isn't approachable to somebody just because they happen to be rich. A racing car at this level should make any road going car look less than in any and all criteria. And that's the problem. Most modern road cars, especially supercars, hypercars, heavily tuned/modified cars making 1,000, 2,000+HP and looking amazing while doing it have taken the luster away from all racing cars, which are overly homogenized and have been anti-innovation, anti-speed and making the same lap times for the past nearly 25 years.

[TRuss]

After looking at some photos of the Porsche 961 I've softened my stance on the drive tribe renders. I still think that they looked dumbed down by comparison to the road cars that they are based on. The aero on the road cars is so much more clever than the tacked on wings and things in the renderings. I say keep the road car's stock active aerodynamics with maybe a minimal amount of small flicks and whatever cutouts are needed for the additional cooling. Keep them looking like nothing more than a track prepped road car (ala the 961) lowered with beefy race rubber and I'm in.

[TF110]

I don't like any of those renders much. They look just like the road cars with some paint job and a fin. Little too close to GTE, which imo looks better with the big tires and wide fenders.

[hondafan37]

I do not know if this theme fits into this thread but I found it important to mention.

Adrian Newey received an offer from an LMP1 team in 2014. He said:"That was very interesting in principle; to be involved in a team with the aim of winning Le Mans remains on my bucket list. But the team is based in Germany and that bit didn't appeal"
Who was that Team? Porsche?

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/124...rned-them-down

[TF110]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

I do not know if this theme fits into this thread but I found it important to mention.

Adrian Newey received an offer from an LMP1 team in 2014. He said:"That was very interesting in principle; to be involved in a team with the aim of winning Le Mans remains on my bucket list. But the team is based in Germany and that bit didn't appeal"
Who was that Team? Porsche?

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/124...rned-them-down

Toyota Porsche Audi all based in Germany, so he didn't give anything away there

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by TF110

Toyota Porsche Audi all based in Germany, so he didn't give anything away there

Yes, I already know that the 3 factory equipment of LMP1 are based in Germany, but I remember some visit of Newey to the Porsche Box in some race, maybe it was just to say hello to Mark Weber or maybe not, I do not know.

[S griffin]

Wouldn't surprise me. I wonder what he's doing now though, I haven't really heard much from him recently.

[CTD]

Isn’t Bykolles also German based?

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by CTD

Isn’t Bykolles also German based?

well, must to admit that kolles in 2016 introduced a lot of new aero parts for the CLM.
Guess it wasn't toyota.... Newey doesn't look like a guy captivated by low budget programs

[Deleted]

2018 Tech regs have come out (dated today on FIA site)

Hybrid
https://www.fia.com/file/64996/downl...token=A4ImrviJ

Non-Hybrid
https://www.fia.com/file/64997/downl...token=BYfJS47h

LMP2
https://www.fia.com/file/64998/downl...token=qpt8I7OJ

[chernaudi]

Pardon my ignorance (I haven't read though the PDF files), but are there any major changes aside from what we already know about LMP2 jokers/BOP options?

[CTD]

Just reading through the yellow parts (additions I assume?), what interest me is the following:
Hybrid
- Strong, and quite comical clarification of sprung weight:

"Will be considered as sprung parts of the car in contact with the external air stream, all parts that will be wet if the complete car would be plunged into a liquid bath."

- Added point about Ancillaries above 50V. What could it be that Toyota added that would require this to be part of the legislation?
- Minimum weight is 875kg + 3kg of camera installation.
- 15" maximum diameter for Carbon brake discs.
- Adding the word "Power Circuit" a whole bunch of times.
- 35.2kg of petrol per stint is allowed for Hybrid (52.9kg for non-hybrid)

Non-hybrid
- Strong, and quite comical clarification of sprung weight:

"Will be considered as sprung parts of the car in contact with the external air stream, all parts that will be wet if the complete car would be plunged into a liquid bath."

- Rearwing endplate connecting to the bodywork might be allowed for non-hybrids, but not hybrids. This section features for non-hybrids, not for hybrids:

"Some exceptions are tolerated for one possible reinforcement of the rear wing endplates per side of the car."

- Torque metering is compulsory for all non-hybrids cars. It must be supplied by engine manufacture with guidance to the chassis manufacture for installation.
- Porsche's side mirrors inside the fenders are effectively banned for non-hybrids:

"Except the side window of the car and the driver’s helmet visor, there should be no structure, even transparent, between the eyes of the driver and the mirror reflective glass."

LMP2
- Regarding disconnecting the Transmission in order to push the car the following is added:

f a pneumatic system is used (with internal pressure greater than 10 bar), a pressurized air bottle (exclusively fitted outside the cockpit) of a maximum weight of 0.5 kg is allowed.
It is the duty of the constructor to demonstrate that this system is of safe construction

[carbsmith]

My reading is not that attached rear end plates are not being allowed for either class, as that's almost impossible to police without F1 levels of restrictiveness, but rather they're allowing for privateer cars having less advanced structural engineering so they can add a separate support that doesn't follow all the usual bodywork rules.

[tomerswayler]

Originally Posted by Chiana

2018 Tech regs have come out (dated today on FIA site)

Hybrid
https://www.fia.com/file/64996/downl...token=A4ImrviJ

Non-Hybrid
https://www.fia.com/file/64997/downl...token=BYfJS47h

LMP2
https://www.fia.com/file/64998/downl...token=qpt8I7OJ

The changes mentioned for the fuel flow and consumption should bring the Toyotas and Privateer very close together. The 2017 figures are from https://www.fia.com/file/58905/downl...token=eNkmOZrc

Let's see:
LMP1H 8MJ
2017 878kg___124,9MJ/lap fuel___80,2kg/h fuel___44,1kg/stint fuel
2018 878kg___124,9MJ/lap fuel___80,2kg/h fuel___35,2kg/stint fuel

LMP1
2017 833kg___157,2MJ/lap fuel___100,9kg/h fuel___53,0kg/stint fuel
2018 833kg___210,9MJ/lap fuel___110,0kg/h fuel___52,9kg/stint fuel


The LMP1H will see a drop in the average stint length as the fuel per stint decreases by 20%. A normal stint will be 10 or 11 laps instead of 13 laps, so LMP1H and LMP1 could be forced on the same stint lengths/strategy.

The LMP1 class gets 34% more fuel per lap and will have 9% more power. Is that a jump in power (and laptime) similar to what LMP2 did from 2016 to 2017? LMP2 improved the laptime from a 3:36 to a 3:25.

The best ByKolles did a 3:24 in 2017, the best LMP1H was 3:14.

Looks like it'll be a close competition!