[Tech Issue] Closed cockpits- Closer to reality then we might think?

[bella]

we all do it every day with windscreen wipers and chips and marks on the windscreen. the problem comes when the obstruction reaches a point where the mind is unable to look past the obstruction without overconcentrating, i guess.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Seems OK. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...lity-with-halo

However, this article does uncover a potential major flaw. These drivers will not know it is raining. What a disastrous own goal by the FIA here. It’s a joke. I would be surprised if Australia is cancelled.

This is easily solved. Place rain detecting sensors on the Halo and when it rains, an LED strip on the inside rim of the Halo flashes blue.

Instead sensors could be placed on the car and when it rains the data could then be relayed to the pit wall, who then tell the driver over the radio that it is raining. Or the data could be relayed straight to the driver. Alternatively, they could use spotters. I don't see this as an insurmountable problem.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

This is easily solved. Place rain detecting sensors on the Halo and when it rains, an LED strip on the inside rim of the Halo flashes blue.

Instead sensors could be placed on the car and when it rains the data could then be relayed to the pit wall, who then tell the driver over the radio that it is raining. Or the data could be relayed straight to the driver. Alternatively, they could use spotters. I don't see this as an insurmountable problem.

... and then they could just glance up through the big hole in the roof ... or about 5 degrees on either side ...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

... and then they could just glance up through the big hole in the roof ... or about 5 degrees on either side ...

But according to the article, the Halo diverts rain drops away from drivers' helmet.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

But according to the article, the Halo diverts rain drops away from drivers' helmet.

Honestly I can see it having an impact on reducing the amount, but not totally stopping it. It’s probably more of an issue with detecting a very light rain when at speed. If anyone has driven a convertible in the rain, they understand this. However at some point when it rains hard enough you will get wet. Personally IMHO its blown out of proportion. Time will tell.

Richard

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

This is easily solved. Place rain detecting sensors on the Halo and when it rains, an LED strip on the inside rim of the Halo flashes blue.

Instead sensors could be placed on the car and when it rains the data could then be relayed to the pit wall, who then tell the driver over the radio that it is raining. Or the data could be relayed straight to the driver. Alternatively, they could use spotters. I don't see this as an insurmountable problem.

No need. Grosjean will crash on the main straight at the first sign of rain thus highlighting potential rain to all in car and pitwall.

[Sodemo]

Another reason to avoid racing in the wet I guess…

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by E.B

No need. Grosjean will crash on the main straight at the first sign of rain thus highlighting potential rain to all in car and pitwall.

Problem solved then, .

[F1Guy]

How the teams are developing the halo....

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/t...-the-halo.html


The HAAS solution might get a bit tricky when getting in and out of the cockpit - and trying not to slice the onions!

[chillibowl]

im not sure how possible this is but what are the challenges in changing the basic dimensions of the HALO?

its one thing for the teams to add fairings and what to make the aero work better for the car but i guess i would like to see them to maintain the devices' strength/load handling ability while making it the actual thing smaller/slimmer and less obtrusive to look at.

over time i hope this is an avenue they also pursue.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

im not sure how possible this is but what are the challenges in changing the basic dimensions of the HALO?

its one thing for the teams to add fairings and what to make the aero work better for the car but i guess i would like to see them to maintain the devices' strength/load handling ability while making it the actual thing smaller/slimmer and less obtrusive to look at.

over time i hope this is an avenue they also pursue.

Making it small in physical size is going to be difficult due to driver exit requirements.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by E.B

Making it small in physical size is going to be difficult due to driver exit requirements.

Also the drivers head moves a long way in an impact and it is imperative it can not impact the halo. I suspect this is what dictates the dimensions we have.

[Tourer]

M. Todt speaks about Halo reactions: Short Memories
I suspect the point that he's missing is that GPDA clearly raised the topic of head protection but not necessarily by using Halo - a screen could well have satisfied the GPDA wish.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Tourer

M. Todt speaks about Halo reactions: Short Memories
I suspect the point that he's missing is that GPDA clearly raised the topic of head protection but not necessarily by using Halo - a screen could well have satisfied the GPDA wish.

Todt doesn't seem to understand the difference with a request from drivers to have head protection and having a device mandated, without thorough testing of the alternatives. What about the concerns raised by Kevin Magnussen, regarding problems at tracks with elevation changes like Spa? The FIA listened to Vettel, when he got dizzy after one lap.

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Todt doesn't seem to understand the difference with a request from drivers to have head protection and having a device mandated, without thorough testing of the alternatives. What about the concerns raised by Kevin Magnussen, regarding problems at tracks with elevation changes like Spa? The FIA listened to Vettel, when he got dizzy after one lap.

As he says though what would happen if there was an accident that the halo could have prevented when the halo was ready to use?

They haven't stopped testing alternatives. It just didn't make sense to have nothing on the cars while they spend years doing that.

Elevation changes are no big deal. There are many cars that are unsighted for a second or so through elevation changes. They don't have constant accidents, it's just something that F1 drivers will have to get used to.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

They haven't stopped testing alternatives. It just didn't make sense to have nothing on the cars while they spend years doing that.

Years? That is a large part of the problem here.

Richard

[S griffin]

Most of the drivers were in favour of the shield, as were the teams, but it seems the FIA didn't really listen. So it's wrong for Todt to say people have short memories

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

As he says though what would happen if there was an accident that the halo could have prevented when the halo was ready to use?

They haven't stopped testing alternatives. It just didn't make sense to have nothing on the cars while they spend years doing that.

Elevation changes are no big deal. There are many cars that are unsighted for a second or so through elevation changes. They don't have constant accidents, it's just something that F1 drivers will have to get used to.

They could have gone ahead with the Shield but decided against it, based on one lap by Vettel. I haven't read or heard anything to suggest that alternatives are being tested.

Magnussen, doesn't think elevation changes are no big deal but I would like to hear what other drivers have to say.

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Years? That is a large part of the problem here.

Richard

They spent years testing the devices that led to the halo and included fighter type screen etc in that testing. Any new device would have to go through the same process surely?

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

They could have gone ahead with the Shield but decided against it, based on one lap by Vettel. I haven't read or heard anything to suggest that alternatives are being tested.

Magnussen, doesn't think elevation changes are no big deal but I would like to hear what other drivers have to say.

They said right at the launch of the Halo that it was the best solution for now but they would be open to testing alternatives.

So it's ok for Magnussen to say elevation is a big issue but not for Vettel to say that distortion is a big issue with the shield?

Surprised at Magnussen to be honest. Given the types of cars his Dad drives he should be well aware that there are quite a few places closed cockpit cars can't see as well as open ones. Somehow they manage to keep on the track though.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

They said right at the launch of the Halo that it was the best solution for now but they would be open to testing alternatives.

So it's ok for Magnussen to say elevation is a big issue but not for Vettel to say that distortion is a big issue with the shield?

Surprised at Magnussen to be honest. Given the types of cars his Dad drives he should be well aware that there are quite a few places closed cockpit cars can't see as well as open ones. Somehow they manage to keep on the track though.

Elevation which is Magnussen's concern and feeling dizzy, which is what Vettel complained of, I would have thought are quite different things.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

They spent years testing the devices that led to the halo and included fighter type screen etc in that testing. Any new device would have to go through the same process surely?

There is no need to rush safety devices, but... "years" of testing is mind boggling! I am not saying time was not spent. I am saying duration was too long! Especially given what has been publicly shown as output. In short, too much time to generate so very little. Other racing organizations are more nimble and private industry also shows it is much faster as well. And I sure hope anything new doesn't take additional "years" (plural) of internal testing. This is F1 navel gazing at it's finest.

If I was to speculate, I would say that there were two issues at hand.

1. A lack of priority
2. A lack of resources devoted to the problem.

The result is the allowance of extended timelines with not much to show for it. Also, in addition to the well discussed likely internal politics as teams try to drive the direction (for their own benefit) I also suspect there is a strong (NIHS) "Not Invented Here Syndrome" going on within F1 as well on this topic.

Richard

[Alfaholic]

At least some companies can see the marketing opportunities provided by the Halo...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...rship-1015149/

[chillibowl]

That's a great marketing pairing.

Plus if it catches on, a flip flop could be a fairly apt nickname for the halo.

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

At least some companies can see the marketing opportunities provided by the Halo...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...rship-1015149/

100% of the profit from sales of the McLaren edition flip flops going to their charity for orphaned children. Great reason to buy some flip flops I'd say.

http://www.gandyslondon.com/mclaren-...___store=uk_en