CoG Parity... - Page 6

V8 Fireworks · 7 Mar 2018, 04:55 (Ref:3806482)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

Did you see Larko's analysis of laptimes for the last half of Sunday's race at Adelaide? There was no apparent advantage of the ZB vs other cars apparent.

Given the bodywork weight can be measured directly, that is no way to prove parity.

What if Scotty is driving 0.3 second better per lap than the Giz, but the FGX is at a 0.4 second per lap disadvtange? The numbers say they are close ot equal, but actually the superior car (within the specified developments areas of the rules) and driver of DJR Team Penske ought to winning by a large margin.

Mixer · 7 Mar 2018, 04:57 (Ref:3806483)

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

What if Scotty is driving 0.3 second better per lap than the Giz, but the FGX is at a 0.4 second per lap disadvtange? The numbers say they are close ot equal, but actually the superior car (within the specified developments areas of the rules) and driver of DJR Team Penske ought to winning by a large margin.

Oh my god, this is like a conspiracy theory... If there's evidence that proves it, go with it, and if there's no evidence, make something else up...

djr81 · 7 Mar 2018, 05:02 (Ref:3806484)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

Did you see Larko's analysis of laptimes for the last half of Sunday's race at Adelaide? There was no apparent advantage of the ZB vs other cars apparent.

No I didn't but the advantage the ZB had was apparent in the results. Apparently. Not that it should matter. If Ford & Nissan run 1,2,3,4 in Melbourne it shouldn't change the substance of the argument.

The point at issue is the weight and cog gains made by the roof/hatch paneling. It is an easy thing for supercars to analyse and fix if there is the will.

V8 Fireworks · 7 Mar 2018, 05:05 (Ref:3806485)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

Oh my god, this is like a conspiracy theory... If there's evidence that proves it, go with it, and if there's no evidence, make something else up...

Well publish the weights of the bodywork then!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

Public release of information nobody has the expertise to understand? Good idea.

I have an engineering degree, lots of Supercars fans do. Or an interest in science, motoring or engineering, which many Supercars fans will have.

Centre of mass is pretty simple.

peckstar · 7 Mar 2018, 05:05 (Ref:3806486)

Quote:

Originally Posted by djr81

The point at issue is the weight and cog gains made by the roof/hatch paneling. It is an easy thing for supercars to analyse and fix if there is the will.

Thats about it, Analyse it, work out if its a problem, fix it if there is

no need to bury head in the sand on it as some seem to want to do

V8 Fireworks · 7 Mar 2018, 05:07 (Ref:3806487)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

Thats about it, Analyse it, work out if its a problem, fix it if there is

Yep, release the facts and put Ford and Nissans fans at ease! Easy.

djr81 · 7 Mar 2018, 05:08 (Ref:3806488)

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Well publish the weights of the bodywork then!

I have an engineering degree, lots of Supercars fans do.

Centre of mass is pretty simple.

Same here. How much the broadcasters think they have to dumb down coverage does my head in some days.

Mixer · 7 Mar 2018, 05:25 (Ref:3806491)

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is.

djr81 · 7 Mar 2018, 05:31 (Ref:3806492)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is.

So on that basis everyone is either smarter than the average bear or thinks they are.

Sandgroper · 7 Mar 2018, 05:43 (Ref:3806493)

Give it a few weeks and a few different tracks.

The same teams and same drivers are always at the pointy end. With the exception of WR, but they were bound to bounce back at some stage, especially with the new intel.

sizzle · 7 Mar 2018, 05:47 (Ref:3806494)

Did DJPTP think without the great Ludo T8 wouldn't be able to develop the new car and slacked off a little bit?

V8 Fireworks · 7 Mar 2018, 09:12 (Ref:3806526)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is.

You're funny!

Tourer · 7 Mar 2018, 11:21 (Ref:3806558)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is.

Best post in this thread (so far)! Love it

Backagain · 7 Mar 2018, 12:08 (Ref:3806574)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is.

Glad to see you've been diagnosed correctly, makes it easier to seek treatment and a cure.

V8 Fireworks · 7 Mar 2018, 12:10 (Ref:3806576)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backagain

Glad to see you've been diagnosed correctly, makes it easier to seek treatment and a cure.

Gold!

Mixer · 7 Mar 2018, 12:40 (Ref:3806595)

For those playing at home:

2009: 888 Debut of the FG Falcon, with a win at Adelaide.
2010: 888 Debut their VE Commodore, with a win in the UAE.
2013: 888 Debut of VF COTF, with a win at Adelaide.

2018: Debut of the ZB, with a win at Adelaide.

Even when other teams got wins, like the Giz in Adelaide 2013, it was in a 888 car!

So take your pick, FG, VE, VF, ZB... The unfair advantage is 888.

Compromised · 7 Mar 2018, 21:26 (Ref:3806713)

Mixer, your post is 100% accurate and truth be told, T8 probably is the variable that can't be homolagated.

But I feel you suffer from the same affliction as Supercars - lack of "political savvy". Think of what the average fan looks like, think of how anything T8 does is perceived - they're the big baddie that does what they want and Supercars helps them get away with it, right? With that in mind, moving forward more transparency is the key. You're right in that fans won't understand the data, but even the perception of transparency may be enough the satisfy some.

Data from the homolagation process, more information from the judiciary, transcripts of driver breifings...all things that require minimal effort but may alleviate some issues.

In a parity formula it is integral to atleast appear impartial. Sometimes the ambiguity within the series can be a negative.

Most importantly I want T8 to receive the praise they deserve, not to be lampooned as some dramatic, all powerful force of pure evil - more information can only shine a light on the stupidity of T8 conspiracies.

Mixer · 7 Mar 2018, 23:23 (Ref:3806742)

Nope I am just an empiricist and people jump to conusions supposed by their ideology too often.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

sizzle · 8 Mar 2018, 02:24 (Ref:3806772)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Compromised

Mixer, your post is 100% accurate and truth be told, T8 probably is the variable that can't be homolagated.

But I feel you suffer from the same affliction as Supercars - lack of "political savvy". Think of what the average fan looks like, think of how anything T8 does is perceived - they're the big baddie that does what they want and Supercars helps them get away with it, right? With that in mind, moving forward more transparency is the key. You're right in that fans won't understand the data, but even the perception of transparency may be enough the satisfy some.

Data from the homolagation process, more information from the judiciary, transcripts of driver breifings...all things that require minimal effort but may alleviate some issues.

In a parity formula it is integral to atleast appear impartial. Sometimes the ambiguity within the series can be a negative.

Most importantly I want T8 to receive the praise they deserve, not to be lampooned as some dramatic, all powerful force of pure evil - more information can only shine a light on the stupidity of T8 conspiracies.

I don't believe it would matter what you put out there, you will never convince the haters.

TWRv12 · 9 Mar 2018, 00:43 (Ref:3806956)

T8 only have one car to develop this year

peckstar · 9 Mar 2018, 00:51 (Ref:3806957)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWRv12

T8 only have one car to develop this year

2 motors though

Mixer · 9 Mar 2018, 00:55 (Ref:3806958)

I can't find the link now but apparently Erebus ran the exact setup from their VF at Newcastle on the ZB, so the difference can't be all that big!

peckstar · 9 Mar 2018, 00:59 (Ref:3806959)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

I can't find the link now but apparently Erebus ran the exact setup from their VF at Newcastle on the ZB, so the difference can't be all that big!

Erebus 'ignored' model change

V8 Fireworks · 9 Mar 2018, 12:57 (Ref:3807046)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

Erebus 'ignored' model change

Yep, and Lowndes found it " very easy to drive, it's a lot nicer to drive a car you don't have to hustle or manage". http://www.supercars.com/news/champi...easy-to-drive/

Gee, it couldn't possibly be so great for Lowndes and Erebus because the car has a lower and more central centre of gravity due to a lighter bodywork package, therefore making everything better in the handling department with no drawbacks..........

Could it?

Compromised · 9 Mar 2018, 18:04 (Ref:3807106)

You could say that, but then it's odd that a setup from a supposedly "slower" car (VF) worked well.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Is there a parity problem?	Crash Test	Australasian Touring Cars.	20	24 May 2002 01:32
Procar Parity	Crash Test	Australasian Touring Cars.	4	21 Aug 2001 12:53
Who here loves parity?	Crash Test	Touring Car Racing	1	22 May 2000 03:34
V8 Supercar Parity	Troy	Touring Car Racing	16	10 May 2000 22:22