CoG Parity...

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by Compromised

You could say that, but then it's odd that a setup from a supposedly "slower" car (VF) worked well.

Depends on ability of driver and their style to extract the max from the car

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Yep, and Lowndes found it " very easy to drive, it's a lot nicer to drive a car you don't have to hustle or manage". http://www.supercars.com/news/champi...easy-to-drive/

Gee, it couldn't possibly be so great for Lowndes and Erebus because the car has a lower and more central centre of gravity due to a lighter bodywork package, therefore making everything better in the handling department with no drawbacks..........

Could it?

You can have whatever opinion you like but there are not enough facts yet to prove a disparity.

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[Mixer]

Ford teams to apply to homologate composite panels.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2018/03/10...eplace-falcon/

Can't wait to see the status quo remain and for the next excuse.

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[Umai Naa]

The composite panels were known about, last year when the car first broke cover.

Another instance where Ford teams were caught napping...

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

The composite panels were known about, last year when the car first broke cover.

Another instance where Ford teams were caught napping...

From purely a cost perspective, it is hard to make sense of putting a proposal up to put composite panels on FG/X.

888 was spoken of as having spent $1.2m homologating ZB, funded presumably by Holden & friends. Same amount of work required to design Mondeo probably, even if they only run 8 of them not 14.

$1.2m, 8 Fords = $150k per car...

What will a composite FGX roof cost? Or doors? Or rear quarters? Or bonnets? Or boot lids?

Is playing with Grandpa’s Axe the best use of resources?

[Mixer]

No say it will cost anything like that just to make composite panels, the shape isn't changing just the material.

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[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Mixer

No say it will cost anything like that just to make composite panels, the shape isn't changing just the material.

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And junk the perfectly serviceable existing panelwork...

The article suggests that DJRTP and Tickford are applying to manufacture these independent of each other. Lets make 2 sets of designs, manufacturing equipment & methods, and the real possibility that one will be better than the other...

Mondeo. It’s time.

[Mixer]

Nobody is going to cough up the millions required to do it, just makes no sense. People need to give up on Ford. They are gone and are not coming back.

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[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Nobody is going to cough up the millions required to do it, just makes no sense. People need to give up on Ford. They are gone and are not coming back.

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Isnt a Mondeo and a Fusion the same car?
Doesn’t Mr Penske run a Fusion in NASCAR...

Surely the design capacity already exists on that body shape, however convoluted it becomes for NASCAR, to do it cheaper than the quoted 888 number?

[JAFA851]

Originally Posted by Mixer

People need to give up on Ford. They are gone and are not coming back.

This. Do to them as they have done to you.

[Silver GT]

theres a report in the Hearld Sun that the Ford boys are just waiting for a tick off on some new body panels for the AGP meet

can anyone add any comments?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Silver GT

theres a report in the Hearld Sun that the Ford boys are just waiting for a tick off on some new body panels for the AGP meet

can anyone add any comments?

the article linked but behind paywall)

includes quotes from Tim edwards

The man leading the Falcon fightback, Tim Edwards from Tickford Racing, admits the Fords are ready to race with updated panels but cannot front that way at the AGP meeting without full approval from Supercars.

“I can’t say we’re running anything until we have approval. We’ve got to step through it,” Edwards says.

The technical chief at Supercars, Dave Stewart, confirms there has been an application for a Falcon update but will not go into any sort of detail.

“We’ve have an application and we’re working through it. That’s both the Ford and Nissan homologation teams,” he says.

[Jam3s]

So they're already ready to go without much mumbling about significant costs and difficulty to produce which was being drummed into us in this thread.

[Ospi]

What's funny about this is due to the hinge design on the ZB there wasn't actually much benefit over the VF roof unlike the Ford which will see a much larger benefit. Swings and roundabouts.

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[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Jam3s

So they're already ready to go without much mumbling about significant costs and difficulty to produce which was being drummed into us in this thread.

the teams mentioned significant costs, nothing to do with this thread

and there is no mention of the costs in this article which is still early in process

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by Ospi

What's funny about this is due to the hinge design on the ZB there wasn't actually much benefit over the VF roof unlike the Ford which will see a much larger benefit. Swings and roundabouts.

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I know, right?

[Silver GT]

the story is now on supercars

seems the Nissans think its a foregone conclusion....they have already fitted their new roofs

[Tourer]

Link to article on Supercars site here
All seems a bit strange to me. Quotes Mr Kelly saying that they've worked hard to pull weight out of the cars but it begs the question on what they've been doing for the last few years - you'd think a driven, competitive team would have done that ages ago in areas that the regs permitted it.
Article also says that both Ford and Nissan declined the opportunity to re-spec composite panels last year but now are rushing to do so. This again seems weird - lack of foresight combined with a light-bulb moment in Adelaide perhaps?
Anyway, if they have a genuine need for lighter panels and ballast it's good that they're getting it - I guess we'll see over the next few events how close they all are to each other (or not).

[Compromised]

Surely Supercars will say no - parity between the cars has already been achieved through the homogulation process. Wouldn't further changes upset the balance?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Jam3s

So they're already ready to go without much mumbling about significant costs and difficulty to produce which was being drummed into us in this thread.

You missed the point of the discussion entirely, making the ZB's panels in steel would have been costly and difficult.

Anyway I look forward to the ZB still being competitive if not dominant at the AGP, as their form their seems to be less than that of Adelaide.

DJRTP quiet on this, strangely.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by Mixer

You missed the point of the discussion entirely, making the ZB's panels in steel would have been costly and difficult.

Anyway I look forward to the ZB still being competitive if not dominant at the AGP, as their form their seems to be less than that of Adelaide.

DJRTP quiet on this, strangely.

The article says"...roof skins, which were custom-made due to difficulties obtaining production examples from Germany."

Difficult to obtain, not costly and difficult to make.

Everyone else can cut and shut roof panels. Its not rocket science.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Anyway I look forward to the ZB still being competitive if not dominant at the AGP, as their form their seems to be less than that of Adelaide.

DJRTP quiet on this, strangely.

Very unlikely, DJRTP is the best team with the best driver and will brain 'em, now their extremely unfair disadvantage is partially removed.

Designed by Triple Eight, the Commodores were said to be running as much as 40kg of ballast to make it to the 1,410kg minimum weight required for all cars.

“They [Triple Eight for the ZB] had to create a firewall because it’s a hatchback and it’s got a nice piece of carbon separating the cabin, whereas ours has got a dirty great bit of steel." said Tim Edwards.

“That’s not the sort of thing we could even entertain changing, because unless we were changing model or building new cars, you’ve just got to live with some of those things.”

“We have got a lot of unexpected modifications to the car after how things rolled out at Adelaide with the Holden, which our crew has dug deep and done an outstanding job of trying to level the playing field again,” Rick Kelly.

It is crystal clear the honest and trustworthy Falcon and Altima runners are still a some unfair disadvantage.

In a way it's good that Triple Eight's optimistic interpretation has has made it clear to the others that anything goes... The Falcon should handle nicely with it's new composite bonnet and composite roof.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

You missed the point of the discussion entirely, making the ZB's panels in steel would have been costly and difficult.

Must strongly disagree.

A little metalwork with sheetmetal and an English wheel has to be cheaper than making composite moulds and using composites (which is a much more expensive raw material than sheet metal, not to mention all the labour hours of sanding and laying up, that aren't required with simple sheet metal).

I mentioned it before: the beautiful Project Binky Mini -- all hand fabricated out of sheetmetal, at a much lower cost than using composites.

[Mixer]

If you can find enough people with skills to make panels like that suitable for a race car, you have an opportunity to make money selling them to Supercar teams...

But I'm here to tell you that you are wrong. Fabrication like that is very skill intensive and is NOT cheap.

The point remains - Ford and Nissan pointed the bone at this for the cause of the ZB's immediate competitiveness, completely discounting 888's record of car wins on debut, and the Commodore's rather incredible run of form at Adelaide.

Now that both will have eliminated this alleged advantage I await the next excuse.

Scotty was really fast at the GP last year, slippery car goes well - but Fabs seems to be all at sea, and a team needs both its drivers up the pointy end.

[djr81]

[QUOTE=Mixer;3809283]The point remains - Ford and Nissan pointed the bone at this for the cause of the ZB's immediate competitiveness, completely discounting 888's record of car wins on debut, and the Commodore's rather incredible run of form at Adelaide.
QUOTE]

Ford and Nissan pointed the bone at a homologated advantage in a parity formula. That they were proven to have a point counts for nothing?