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Old 1 Mar 2018, 01:15 (Ref:3804783)   #6201
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And it's not even his only source of income...

This here below seems somewhat pointless to even talk about, considering it's not really in their hands of how much SC/slowzone there will be. And also going fast shouldn't be particularly high in the priority list versus reliability, this year especially, but I guess the bit about not attempting to just cruise to victory because the car's not optimized for such is interesting
https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...istance-record
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Old 1 Mar 2018, 03:56 (Ref:3804810)   #6202
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And it's not even his only source of income...

This here below seems somewhat pointless to even talk about, considering it's not really in their hands of how much SC/slowzone there will be. And also going fast shouldn't be particularly high in the priority list versus reliability, this year especially, but I guess the bit about not attempting to just cruise to victory because the car's not optimized for such is interesting
https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...istance-record
Kinda click-baitish headline if you ask me. The quotes don't even say that the distance record is their target. Finishing and winning is their target and those things like distance record and lap record are secondary. I hope they break both, but it's likely something will break on the car with their horrible luck.
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Old 1 Mar 2018, 17:00 (Ref:3804954)   #6203
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Kinda click-baitish headline if you ask me. The quotes don't even say that the distance record is their target. Finishing and winning is their target and those things like distance record and lap record are secondary. I hope they break both, but it's likely something will break on the car with their horrible luck.
Well some of the quotes kind of reflect on it "-- These are targets that engineers like." followed by "This pressure we need: it is good for the engineers and good for the mechanics". But yes in essence I tend to agree on the clickbaitness of it.

Anyway, as for 'luck', while I recognize there have been few occasions where you can blame Toyota falling by the wayside on luck at Le Mans (such as the bizarre pit lane misunderstanding last year, or independent mandated FIA sensor failure) it has been 95-99% of the cases down to either of two things:

A) Mechanical failure
B) Driver error

And obviously C) lack of performance like 2013 and 2015 but I'm not really counting those since they're not related to the "missed opportunities" category we're discussing here


And those are not 'luck', they are mistakes. That's why I always get annoyed when someone brings up 'bad luck' when it comes to 2016 for example... it wasn't luck, it was Toyota not lasting to the finish while Porsche did. Porsche did 100% of the work while Toyota only 99,9%... it doesn't matter if they were the 'better team' up to that 99,9% point if they couldn't manage the final 0,01% left

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Old 1 Mar 2018, 22:04 (Ref:3805042)   #6204
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And those are not 'luck', they are mistakes. That's why I always get annoyed when someone brings up 'bad luck' when it comes to 2016 for example... it wasn't luck, it was Toyota not lasting to the finish while Porsche did. Porsche did 100% of the work while Toyota only 99,9%... it doesn't matter if they were the 'better team' up to that 99,9% point if they couldn't manage the final 0,01% left
I think it is not the fact the mechanical failure occured wich is called bad luck by some but when it occured was bad luck.Meaning:,would this have happened say at the time the leading #7 had a sensor failure in "14 the team maybe would have been able to consolidate a win in '16.
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Old 1 Mar 2018, 23:02 (Ref:3805054)   #6205
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I think it is not the fact the mechanical failure occured wich is called bad luck by some but when it occured was bad luck.Meaning:,would this have happened say at the time the leading #7 had a sensor failure in "14 the team maybe would have been able to consolidate a win in '16.
Going to the territory of hypothetical scenarios is always dangerous, because even the smallest of variations can radically change possible future outcomes - the butterfly effect... but had it happened somewhere else in the race they likely would've never had the chance to be in a position where they were anyway couple of minutes before the end of the race, but rather radically delayed (also reinforced by the fact that traditionally Toyota's been slower to fix problems than the VW opposition), if not altogether retired.

I get what you're saying but regardless of at which point the failure may or may not happen doesn't matter, everything that happens in a race matters just as much, whether it's in the opening laps (like ByKolles last year) or closing laps... sure you'd rather have it anywhere else but at the end, because as you say you can at least attempt consolidate and still get theoretical outcome - and better yet some events like Daytona 24 Hours artificially give you free gift laps back when caution occurs - but failure is a failure and is just as much your fault.

The opposition didn't get 'lucky' because of your failure, I think that's the specific phrasing I'm arguing for. Perhaps other definitions of luck could be utilized in some form, but not that one. So maybe I wasn't clear enough by what I said
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Old 1 Mar 2018, 23:33 (Ref:3805064)   #6206
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Going to the territory of hypothetical scenarios is always dangerous, because even the smallest of variations can radically change possible future outcomes - the butterfly effect... but had it happened somewhere else in the race they likely would've never had the chance to be in a position where they were anyway couple of minutes before the end of the race, but rather radically delayed (also reinforced by the fact that traditionally Toyota's been slower to fix problems than the VW opposition), if not altogether retired.

I get what you're saying but regardless of at which point the failure may or may not happen doesn't matter, everything that happens in a race matters just as much, whether it's in the opening laps (like ByKolles last year) or closing laps... sure you'd rather have it anywhere else but at the end, because as you say you can at least attempt consolidate and still get theoretical outcome - and better yet some events like Daytona 24 Hours artificially give you free gift laps back when caution occurs - but failure is a failure and is just as much your fault.

The opposition didn't get 'lucky' because of your failure, I think that's the specific phrasing I'm arguing for. Perhaps other definitions of luck could be utilized in some form, but not that one. So maybe I wasn't clear enough by what I said
This was no suggestion of a hypothetical scenario just an example of the way some would reason in this situation.
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Old 1 Mar 2018, 23:38 (Ref:3805065)   #6207
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This was no suggestion of a hypothetical scenario just an example of the way some would reason in this situation.
Do you find this sort of reasoning to be reasonable?

(Just asking out of interest)
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Old 2 Mar 2018, 02:57 (Ref:3805092)   #6208
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Do you find this sort of reasoning to be reasonable?

(Just asking out of interest)
You could argue that all reasoning concerning this matter is assumptuous, whatever perspective you express.
And no i do not find this reasoning to be reasonable.
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Old 2 Mar 2018, 09:42 (Ref:3805155)   #6209
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I think things like the tires in '99, the sensor in '14, the pit stop troll last year are definitely misfortune. I should be honest and say that I don't really believe in luck but I would say those are instances where you could call it that!

On/Off-topic, I was searching for any new information on the Gazoo Racing Super Sport when I came across this article from Forbes. I think there's some interesting stuff in there about the car being on the same chassis (I assume monocoque) as the TS050, not just the engine being the same. Also there is information that it already received 20 orders from customers with each over $1 million. If the car is the basis for their next lmp1/gtp, it will be awesome to see it on the road too. Another article I read about the car says that it has been testing at Fuji with Kamui Kobayashi spotted at the wheel. So it's not just a show piece. Interesting imo.
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Old 11 Mar 2018, 18:16 (Ref:3807384)   #6210
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I think things like the tires in '99, the sensor in '14, the pit stop troll last year are definitely misfortune. I should be honest and say that I don't really believe in luck but I would say those are instances where you could call it that!
Not to spend too long on this old chestnut (you could spend days discussing who actually wanted to win in 2014), but while the sensor catching fire was definitely poor fortune, placing the wiring loom directly underneath it, however small the risk of damage in that position was, was not. These are the fine margins that most competitions at the very top of their sports are decided on.
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Old 12 Mar 2018, 14:10 (Ref:3807504)   #6211
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http://serakota.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2018-03-12

Kota Sera is reporting "Motorsport technology and culture" seminar.
Hisato Tanaka (TMG) delivered lectures on "Utilizing 3D printing technology for race and the problem of developing that technology to mass production vehicle manufacturing."

It was in 2013 that TMG introduced 3D printing products with metal materials to the real race first time.
It was door hinges of TS030 hybrid made of titanium alloy.
By 3d printing, the strength increased and the weight was reduced by 10%.
In TS050 hybrid, 150 of 3D printing parts are used together for resin/metal.
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Old 12 Mar 2018, 16:18 (Ref:3807525)   #6212
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http://serakota.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2018-03-12

Kota Sera is reporting "Motorsport technology and culture" seminar.
Hisato Tanaka (TMG) delivered lectures on "Utilizing 3D printing technology for race and the problem of developing that technology to mass production vehicle manufacturing."

It was in 2013 that TMG introduced 3D printing products with metal materials to the real race first time.
It was door hinges of TS030 hybrid made of titanium alloy.
By 3d printing, the strength increased and the weight was reduced by 10%.
In TS050 hybrid, 150 of 3D printing parts are used together for resin/metal.
Thanks for that information. I was actually thinking about this last night because of the F1 suspension parts and if 3D printing would be the future of making parts like these stronger. I didn't know TMG had it in 2013, I thought it was more recent.
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Old 15 Mar 2018, 21:07 (Ref:3808227)   #6213
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P31yRbbHyQg&t=0s

B-roll footage of Toyota testing at Aragon (amazing track by the way, it should be on the WEC schedule!)
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 00:46 (Ref:3808258)   #6214
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Nice video. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 02:40 (Ref:3808266)   #6215
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Interesting bits from http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/se...ay-notebook-6/

***Toyota Gazoo Racing team director Rob Leupen and team manager John Steeghs are also on-site, although it’s unclear if they have been part of the joint meetings. The Japanese manufacturer is understood to have deployed staff in preparation for the Sebring 2019 race.

***Sportcar365 has learned there was a proposal to have a Toyota TS050 Hybrid run demonstration laps prior to Saturday’s race, although it failed to materialize. It’s understood a post-race testing program had also been under consideration at one point.


They've never really even talked about this event/circuit in the past 7 years so it's encouraging of them to be giving it some considerable thought now and not just thinking of it as mere championship round

Maybe they'll test there next year between December and March
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Old 16 Mar 2018, 07:55 (Ref:3808287)   #6216
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also found this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe5gOtcTSJM
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Old 18 Mar 2018, 10:56 (Ref:3808837)   #6217
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Lifting at the end of that long straight.

Thank god they don't race on that snoozing bit of tarmac though, I remember watching some random Formula Renault races from there years ago and being bored to death on both the profile and surroundings. The only distinctive thing that makes it less boring than say Navarra is the stone wall on the background, but track itself is nothing interesting
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Old 18 Mar 2018, 13:41 (Ref:3808864)   #6218
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In that onboard from Aragon, on the back straight the car boosts all the way to the top of sixth gear. I don't think I've ever seen an LMP1 do that before. Do we think this is track-specific or have Toyota changed their hybrid strategy to combat the fact that the non-hybrids do 350+ km/h down that straight? Maybe they're worried about being sitting ducks at the end of a long straight.



Also, I actually like Aragon.
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Old 19 Mar 2018, 16:29 (Ref:3809142)   #6219
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In that onboard from Aragon, on the back straight the car boosts all the way to the top of sixth gear. I don't think I've ever seen an LMP1 do that before. Do we think this is track-specific or have Toyota changed their hybrid strategy to combat the fact that the non-hybrids do 350+ km/h down that straight? Maybe they're worried about being sitting ducks at the end of a long straight.



Also, I actually like Aragon.
I noticed that too, that was a mighty boost right there! It sounded like a pause in the boost after a couple of seconds and then the boost came back on for a total of around 8 seconds. That's the longest period of time for a hybrid boost I've heard from the Toyota.
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Old 19 Mar 2018, 16:44 (Ref:3809146)   #6220
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Judging by engine noise, the car was close to revlimit in 6th speed approaching the back straight already.
This may mean maybe that gearbox ratios were in "sprint" mode and they are not looking for top speed.
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Old 1 Apr 2018, 12:19 (Ref:3812280)   #6221
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http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/0...r-le-mans.html
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Old 1 Apr 2018, 15:57 (Ref:3812327)   #6222
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"The TS050 VH will be likely to significantly improve the pace seen by any previous LMP1 car, a sub 3:10 ultimate pace predicted by one knowledgable DSC source"
it will simply be fantastic!
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Old 1 Apr 2018, 16:05 (Ref:3812331)   #6223
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it will simply be fantastic!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQfzwFloVqA
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Old 1 Apr 2018, 18:10 (Ref:3812351)   #6224
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DSC is striking hard this year !
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Old 1 Apr 2018, 18:52 (Ref:3812354)   #6225
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Apparently the ACO have agreed to widen the entrance to the pesage in the Place de la Republique to accommodate the revised car......
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