2019 VASC Silly Season (WITH POLL)

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Not sure your point, Touring Cars are really wide in their description. Supercars meet the description of a Touring Car, so did the 1960 -1992 australian Touring Car champion cars

there is no requirement in touring Cars that they have road going relevance. F1 proves that road going relevance is not important to motorsport fans, As does NASCAR and drag racing and speedway

Haha how is the swinging in the breeze going for you Peckstar?

F1 and NASCAR aren’t claiming to be touring cars so your examples miss the mark. Try again.

Why claim to be touring cars if you have no relevance to the road cars?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Isn't the BTCC version better, based on a real Insignia instead of a pretend one?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Haha how is the swinging in the breeze going for you Peckstar?

F1 and NASCAR aren’t claiming to be touring cars so your examples miss the mark. Try again.

Why claim to be touring cars if you have no relevance to the road cars?

Not at all, you reversed the discusion, road relevance means nothing anymore was Leos point, I just agreed with him.

Why does it matter as long as the racing is Engaging, compelling, dramatic and exciting racing is what is needed. the crowds suggest it is

Our supercars though do happen to have road relevance as v8 fireworks photo comparison shows, But heavily modified from road vehicles which is what touring cars are

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by peckstar

But heavily modified from road vehicles which is what touring cars are

Pecky this is one of your better comparisons.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Isn't the BTCC version better, based on a real Insignia instead of a pretend one?

Except it was a Croc of poo

[GTRMagic]

2 More Years For Percat & BJR

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Except it was a Croc of poo

So, based on the road going "commodore" after all

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Our supercars though do happen to have road relevance as v8 fireworks photo comparison shows, But heavily modified from road vehicles which is what touring cars are

I cant see how a car with space frame spec chassis, spec suspension (of totally different type) , different dimensions and wheelbase, chev v8 engine, rwd and composite body that looks "sorta like" a fwd 4/6 cyl road car, can be called "heavily modified from road vehicles". I even think the headlights are custom lightweight units. So whats from the road car, badges. tail lights and door handles?

Dont get me wrong VASC are entertaining, but dont pretend that any of them are "heavily modified from road vehicles" like group c or group a was. I mean Funny cars also have bodies that look similar to some road car.

[champcarman]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

I cant see how a car with space frame spec chassis, spec suspension (of totally different type) , different dimensions and wheelbase, chev v8 engine, rwd and composite body that looks "sorta like" a fwd 4/6 cyl road car, can be called "heavily modified from road vehicles". I even think the headlights are custom lightweight units. So whats from the road car, badges. tail lights and door handles?

Dont get me wrong VASC are entertaining, but dont pretend that any of them are "heavily modified from road vehicles" like group c or group a was. I mean Funny cars also have bodies that look similar to some road car.

Does it matter?

[Forda]

Originally Posted by champcarman

Does it matter?

This very thing would probably account for a large number of former followers of the series.

[Umai Naa]

I still maintain that the bulk of the die-hards still believe what we have now are road cars, tarted up to race.

The comments on various social media seem to back this up.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

I still maintain that the bulk of the die-hards still believe what we have now are road cars, tarted up to race.

The comments on various social media seem to back this up.

Watching Bathurst last year with the car club I am in saw a number of comments which suggested this very thing.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

I still maintain that the bulk of the die-hards still believe what we have now are road cars, tarted up to race.

The comments on various social media seem to back this up.

I’d expect this from casual fans who might watch Bathurst only every year but the number of people who follow the series more closely who still believe the tarted up road cars line is surprising.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by champcarman

Does it matter?

To some it matters a lot

To some it matters very little

[Forda]

A lot of people who once followed Group C and Group A now refer to the current series as 'NASCARS', and tend to tune out.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by rich07

I’d expect this from casual fans who might watch Bathurst only every year but the number of people who follow the series more closely who still believe the tarted up road cars line is surprising.

They must not pay attention much!

Crompo explained it quite extensively... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lhD...E91F14529CFA65

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Forda

A lot of people who once followed Group C and Group A now refer to the current series as 'NASCARS', and tend to tune out.

Also tend to say "get off my lawn".

That is hilarious.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Forda

A lot of people who once followed Group C and Group A now refer to the current series as 'NASCARS', and tend to tune out.

oh well, the series is more popular now than then so you lose some , you win some

the fields are bigger, the racing's closer, we get more raceing and we get a bigger variety of winners

Ive got a friend that in the category, but he still watches, because its still motorsport an its still on TV and even with the current highlights package its better the the coverage from 30 years ago on FTA

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Also tend to say "get off my lawn".

That is hilarious.

A read of John Craft's excellent book, Anatomy & Development of the Stock Car, would lead one to draw the conclusion that the development of the Supercar from '92 to the present day followed a similar although not identical path as the NASCAR stock car from the 50's to the early 1980's.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by peckstar

oh well, the series is more popular now than then so you lose some , you win some

Is it?

What are you basing your numbers off?

Originally Posted by peckstar

the fields are bigger, the racing's closer, we get more raceing and we get a bigger variety of winners

The fields are not bigger

The racing is only closer because the cars are purpose built to be that close. In Group C and Group A, the cars were designed and built with being faster than the others in mind.

Does a bigger variety of winners really prove anything? Was 2012 with only 4 different winners any worse than 2013 or 2011 when there were more winners?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

Is it?

What are you basing your numbers off?



The fields are not bigger

The racing is only closer because the cars are purpose built to be that close. In Group C and Group A, the cars were designed and built with being faster than the others in mind.

Does a bigger variety of winners really prove anything? Was 2012 with only 4 different winners any worse than 2013 or 2011 when there were more winners?

im basing my numbers on the facts, not rose coloured glasses. its really not hard to find

for many years of the Atcc thorugh the 80's there were just 20 cars or less at each round

[mite5255]

Originally Posted by Forda

A lot of people who once followed Group C and Group A now refer to the current series as 'NASCARS', and tend to tune out.

Hey, hang on a minute, I'm 65 and followed both group c and A and will admit it took me awhile to warm to group a BUT I have NEVER EVER refereed to the current series as Nascars, Oh and I sure as hell don't tune out, I may take a nap but I always follow what is going on, oh ****, my eyelids are getting heavy

[one five five]

Originally Posted by peckstar

im basing my numbers on the facts, not rose coloured glasses. its really not hard to find

Where are these facts? Please supply a source (preferrably not a quote from the series organiser would be nice), it's the least you can do as you always go on about others providing a source

Originally Posted by peckstar

for many years of the Atcc thorugh the 80's there were just 20 cars or less at each round

Every year in the 80s had most races featuring more than 20 starters

34 cars starting this ATCC round from 1984
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM9o90KwjGg

Over 30 cars at a 1989 ATCC round at the height of "Formula Sierra"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iOuDJDNtEM

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

Where are these facts? Please supply a source (preferrably not a quote from the series organiser would be nice), it's the least you can do as you always go on about others providing a source




Every year in the 80s had most races featuring more than 20 starters

34 cars starting this ATCC round from 1984
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM9o90KwjGg

Over 30 cars at a 1989 ATCC round at the height of "Formula Sierra"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iOuDJDNtEM

Really you are going to cherry pick a couple of rounds to make an argument

tell me about rounds 2,3,5 of 1989, but i will admit 89 and 90 were good years for Group A, Just like 77 was for Group C

But there are no years where there were at least 26 cars on the grid for every event and for almost every years(with the exceptions mentioned above) it was common to have less than 20 cars at an event

Your welcome to work out the stats, but the average field over the life of Supercars is considerable higher than the average field over the life of group A and Group C. even now with only 26 cars at most events it is still higher

[chavez]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Really you are going to cherry pick a couple of rounds to make an argument

tell me about rounds 2,3,5 of 1989, but i will admit 89 and 90 were good years for Group A, Just like 77 was for Group C

But there are no years where there were at least 26 cars on the grid for every event and for almost every years(with the exceptions mentioned above) it was common to have less than 20 cars at an event

Your welcome to work out the stats, but the average field over the life of Supercars is considerable higher than the average field over the life of group A and Group C. even now with only 26 cars at most events it is still higher

Regardless of the number of starters the number of likely winners has stayed remarkably similar over the 58 year history of the ATCC / Supercars championship.

The same could also be said for Formula One.