[WTCC] FIA WTCR 2018: WTCC / TCR Merger?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by pimmy

Yes. Air restrictor & base weight changes.

Really needed to, since they put all the Group A cars that were in different divisions in ETCC and BTCC and put them in the same class. How else could a 2.0l NA Kadett be (somewhat) competitive against a 2.5l M3 or a turbo-charged Sierra.

[Fechna]

And in the latter years of Group A DTM they actively tried to balance the cars with more aero for some brands and even put the Audi V8 on a benchmark test to make sure they are not bullshitting. They did anyway. Anyone thinking 'Hyundai' right now? Or Seat Tdi?

[NaBUru38]

Standings after Nürburgring:

1. FRA Yvan Muller (Hyundai), 137 pts
2. ITA Gabriele Tarquini (Hyundai), 118 pts
3. SWE Thed Björk (Hyundai), 112
4. HUN Norbert Michelisz (Hyundai), 102
5. FRA Yann Ehrlacher (Honda), 91
6. GBR Robert Huff (Volkswagen), 82
7. ARG Esteban Guerrieri (Honda), 76
8. FRA Jean-Karl Vernay (Audi), 74
9. ESP Pepe Oriola (Cupra), 50
10. MOR Mehdi Bennani (Volkswagen), 43
11. BEL Frédéric Vervisch (Audi), 42
12. HUN Dániel Nagy (Cupra), 36
13. BEL Benjamin Lessennes (Honda), 36
14. GBR Gordon Shedden (Audi), 20
15. GBR James Thompson (Honda), 19

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Standings after Nürburgring:

1. FRA Yvan Muller (Hyundai), 137 pts
2. ITA Gabriele Tarquini (Hyundai), 118 pts
3. SWE Thed Björk (Hyundai), 112
4. HUN Norbert Michelisz (Hyundai), 102
5. FRA Yann Ehrlacher (Honda), 91
6. GBR Robert Huff (Volkswagen), 82
7. ARG Esteban Guerrieri (Honda), 76
8. FRA Jean-Karl Vernay (Audi), 74
9. ESP Pepe Oriola (Cupra), 50
10. MOR Mehdi Bennani (Volkswagen), 43
11. BEL Frédéric Vervisch (Audi), 42
12. HUN Dániel Nagy (Cupra), 36
13. BEL Benjamin Lessennes (Honda), 36
14. GBR Gordon Shedden (Audi), 20
15. GBR James Thompson (Honda), 19

The Hyundai's dont have a speed advantage though....

[S griffin]

They’re within the rules, so there you go

[Mark0994]

If anyone wonders what's 100-0-0-0 on YMR cars mean here is the answer.
It means Cyan on some paint code.

[S griffin]

That's a good bit of info to know

[Pettersson]

Originally Posted by Mark0994

If anyone wonders what's 100-0-0-0 on YMR cars mean here is the answer.
It means Cyan on some paint code.

Yes it is, CMYK color model. And on the roof on both of the Hyundai's are the familiar Cyan Racing "flag", however not a Swedish one like on the TC1 and TCTA/STCC Volvos. Using the best TCR is a good start when designing a new TCR car

[S griffin]

I am liking the new liveries, especially on the Volvos

[Mark0994]

New BoP
https://www.touringcartimes.com/2018...st-bop-change/
The Hyundai i30 N TCR will have its power reduced by 2.5% and its ride height increased by 20mm
20kg has been removed from the Alfa Romeo Giulietta TCR, Audi RS 3 LMS and Peugeot 308TCR, with 10kg has been removed for the Cupra TCR and Volkswagen Golf GTI TCR.

[MissClarrpz]

Originally Posted by Mark0994

New BoP
https://www.touringcartimes.com/2018...st-bop-change/
The Hyundai i30 N TCR will have its power reduced by 2.5% and its ride height increased by 20mm
20kg has been removed from the Alfa Romeo Giulietta TCR, Audi RS 3 LMS and Peugeot 308TCR, with 10kg has been removed for the Cupra TCR and Volkswagen Golf GTI TCR.

Finally they're realising the Hyundai's are too quick. Quickly looked at the Nurburgring sector times and Hyundai second quickest on the döttinger höhe behind Audi and second quickest in the mid to high speed corners behind Honda (I think). At any circuit with a straight and a corner they were probably going to win until now.

[Fechna]

Originally Posted by Mark0994

New BoP
https://www.touringcartimes.com/2018...st-bop-change/
The Hyundai i30 N TCR will have its power reduced by 2.5% and its ride height increased by 20mm
20kg has been removed from the Alfa Romeo Giulietta TCR, Audi RS 3 LMS and Peugeot 308TCR, with 10kg has been removed for the Cupra TCR and Volkswagen Golf GTI TCR.

This is a sound decision, maybe we now get the fair championship we hoped for since race one.

I just ask myself how Lotti and the FIA could screw up so hard before the season on bop testing. Also all their Hyundai-splaining during the last months, why and how they did not make any mistakes with bop seems completely rediciolous now. Thank god they themselves understood, that sticking to their bs excuses would hurt TCR as a whole too much.

[TR4racer]

Originally Posted by Fechna

This is a sound decision, maybe we now get the fair championship we hoped for since race one.

I just ask myself how Lotti and the FIA could screw up so hard before the season on bop testing. Also all their Hyundai-splaining during the last months, why and how they did not make any mistakes with bop seems completely rediciolous now. Thank god they themselves understood, that sticking to their bs excuses would hurt TCR as a whole too much.

Sadly the damage to WTCR is done. It was well known in 2017 that the Hyundai was a great car, fast and very capable. There are 4 Hyundai drivers at the top of the standings and with nearly a third of the season over it looks like a Hyundai driver will win the championship.

[Cinghio44]

Well, Hyundai built the best TCR car and deserve some credits
You can't rely only on BOP

[MissClarrpz]

Originally Posted by Cinghio44

Well, Hyundai built the best TCR car and deserve some credits
You can't rely only on BOP

This isn't WTCC, it's TCR. It's meant for all the privateers, every person who wants to race for a (relatively) cheap price in many championships can. While building a good car should be commended it shouldn't lead to a championship domination or TCR's case, championships. If there was no BoP the LMP3 situation would happen where everyone had to get rid of the slower Ginetta and buy anything else to have a chance of racing.

It means you don't have to buy new machinery or updates every season or sooner just to be competitive, saving a lot of money.

[Cinghio44]

Originally Posted by MissClarrpz

This isn't WTCC, it's TCR. It's meant for all the privateers, every person who wants to race for a (relatively) cheap price in many championships can. While building a good car should be commended it shouldn't lead to a championship domination or TCR's case, championships. If there was no BoP the LMP3 situation would happen where everyone had to get rid of the slower Ginetta and buy anything else to have a chance of racing.

It means you don't have to buy new machinery or updates every season or sooner just to be competitive, saving a lot of money.

I agree with you, the problem is that the TCR concept is young. Now there is more pressure with the WTCR, the manufacturer are more involved. This is only the first year and to sort out a good BOP is not easy, just looks what happened in WEC for the GT cars...

I have no problem the Hyundai domination at this stage, they have prepared a fantastic car and even with an harsher BOP they clearly show that the i30 is the car to beat this year.

Obviously for the next seasons I would expect something better

[Fechna]

Originally Posted by Cinghio44

I agree with you, the problem is that the TCR concept is young. Now there is more pressure with the WTCR, the manufacturer are more involved. This is only the first year and to sort out a good BOP is not easy, just looks what happened in WEC for the GT cars...

I have no problem the Hyundai domination at this stage, they have prepared a fantastic car and even with an harsher BOP they clearly show that the i30 is the car to beat this year.

Obviously for the next seasons I would expect something better

Well i disagree a little bit: everyone in their right mind knew since the end of last season and marakech this year, that Hyundai has a better car then Audi, Golf and last years Honda. And the bop has been never so bad as this year, and this is year 4 of TCR. Its not new by any means.

I do have a big problem with Hyundai dominating, because TCR is not made to display supreme engineering, but giving Drivers an equal battleground with reasonable costs.

Also TCR is a Business model for brands and customer racing. So from this viewpoint a well build car isn't the fastest before bop, but the cheapest to produce (while being attractive for the market by beeing cheap and easy to run, with good service in spares, etc.) to maximise the profits when selling the car to customers.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by Fechna

I do have a big problem with Hyundai dominating, because TCR is not made to display supreme engineering, but giving Drivers an equal battleground with reasonable costs.

They knew in advance that TCR organisation would stop them as soon as the complains come too loud.

[Sodemo]

How does Hyundai or any other car maker get such an advantage over another car?

I’m well aware that you have good cars and bad cars, but is it a matter of bending the rules or is it simply the car is better built?

I’d have thought with a fixed rule set it would be hard for one car to be a lot better than another, after all if all cars are built to the same weight and have similar engine power, how can there be such a disparity?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I’d have thought with a fixed rule set it would be hard for one car to be a lot better than another, after all if all cars are built to the same weight and have similar engine power, how can there be such a disparity?

You'll note in Super Touring where every car had 2000cc with 300-320bhp and exactly the same weight, the performance of different cars was *far* from equal! :P
There are other factors like aerodynamics, suspension geometry (in TCR a variation on the road going geometry and suspension type must be used), and simply how developed and fine tuned the car is.

For example, despite similar (in fact less) weight than the others, the KIA and Subaru are not particularly competitive in TCR... they are not well developed.

The Audi and Volkswagen were previously (in previous season(s)) penalised with an additional 20-30kg, and were running this season in WTCR at 1325-1335kg, while the Hyundai was running at 1305kg............

Now some weight has been taken off the VW and Audi and some weight added to the Hyundai, which should balance things.


The organisers also use changes in ride height and 2.5% changes in power level as other tools to equalise the cars. You can assume how with the "best" car likely to sell the best, the manufacturers are inclined to cheat the system if they can (or for there to be performance creep with newer homologations getting increasingly faster like in GT3), and the organiser must use their tools to acheive proper BOP.

[BobJones]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

In TCR a variation on the road going geometry and suspension type must be used.

This is why I think the Alfa can never be truly competitive.

[NaBUru38]

Standings after Zandvoort:

1. FRA Yann Ehrlacher (Honda), 146 pts
2. FRA Yvan Muller (Hyundai), 137
3. GBR Robert Huff (Volkswagen), 130
4. FRA Jean-Karl Vernay (Audi), 121
5. ITA Gabriele Tarquini (Hyundai), 118
6. SWE Thed Björk (Hyundai), 112
7. ARG Esteban Guerrieri (Honda), 109
8. HUN Norbert Michelisz (Hyundai), 102
9. BEL Frédéric Vervisch (Audi), 65
10. ESP Pepe Oriola (Cupra), 63
11. MOR Mehdi Bennani (Volkswagen), 63
12. FRA Aurélien Comte (Peugeot), 58
13. GBR Gordon Shedden (Audi), 58
14. HUN Dániel Nagy (Cupra), 36
15. GBR James Thompson (Honda), 36
16. BEL Benjamin Lessennes (Honda), 36

[Sodemo]

Why is there 3 rounds in China?

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Why is there 3 rounds in China?

Cause Wuhan itself sells more cars than Portugal and Slovakia together?

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Juntos

Cause Wuhan itself sells more cars than Portugal and Slovakia together?

That might have made sense when it was a manufacturer-driven series (wanting to promote their brands in Asia etc), however the WTCR no longer has works teams taking part, so why the big push for China?