[Rules] Future Rule Changes

[bjohnsonsmith]

According to this Autosport article, http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/136222, what Mercedes asked, in the original letter sent to Charlie Whiting was:

"With the exception of transformer oils used within ERS cooling circuits, and hydraulic oils used for PU actuators (both of which should have zero consumption in operation), do all oils (and specifically, any oil used in the pressure charging [turbocharger] system) used in the power unit need to comply with article 20?"

Whiting replied: "All oils used in the engine must comply with article 20 of the F1 technical regulations. The turbocharger is considered part of the engine."

Mercedes's second question was: "If the answer to Q1 is 'yes', does it therefore follow that the combined oil consumption of all the power unit oils must respect the 0.6lts/100km limit referenced within TD/012-17?", referring to previous technical directives about oil consumption. Whiting replied: "Yes".

[S griffin]

That’s better, Merc are right to ask. But that’s the trouble with PUs, be better if it was just about oil

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Sorry, forgot to add -

Haha! Maybe we can be all part of team "ARS" (ambiguous rotating smiley)!

Richard

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

According to this Autosport article, http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/136222, what Mercedes asked, in the original letter sent to Charlie Whiting was:

"With the exception of transformer oils used within ERS cooling circuits, and hydraulic oils used for PU actuators (both of which should have zero consumption in operation), do all oils (and specifically, any oil used in the pressure charging [turbocharger] system) used in the power unit need to comply with article 20?"

Whiting replied: "All oils used in the engine must comply with article 20 of the F1 technical regulations. The turbocharger is considered part of the engine."

Mercedes's second question was: "If the answer to Q1 is 'yes', does it therefore follow that the combined oil consumption of all the power unit oils must respect the 0.6lts/100km limit referenced within TD/012-17?", referring to previous technical directives about oil consumption. Whiting replied: "Yes".

So no mention of ferrari specifically, just a pure technical clarification request.
The only mention of 'cheating' came from a forum poster - who struggles to see anyone in red as a legitimate competitor, and assumes that their entire operation is part of an FIA conspiracy.

[S griffin]

So just making sure the rules seem right to them. I really wish we could concentrate more on what’s happening on track

[wnut]

Originally Posted by S griffin
Well that’s what I guessed, I think Merc are too classy for that.

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think someone has stirred something up.

Never!


On the subject of Ferrari making up their own rules, the necessary (and illegal) mirror supports that were argued about in Spain have mirror-culously disappeared!



So... the necessary supports weren't necessary after all.

[F1Guy]

FOM are having another fan survey.

One of the questions in the survey...




Survey is HERE.

[F1Guy]

And further news to Ferrari's suspected cheating, from Thursday until race completion, both Ferrari cars will be fitted with devices that will monitor the Ferrari ERS system, as it has been under suspicion for a while now.

Ferrari obviously were not very keen on fitting the monitoring system to their cars, but the FiA insisted that they must do so.



IMO, monitoring the ERS on a track like Monaco is completely useless. How about the FiA monitor the Ferrari ERS at Spa. That should bring to life what many teams have been saying in the last few rounds, that being the Ferrari ERS system is suspect.

[bathurst77]

I would like to see 2 points bonus for pole and 1 for fastest lap in race.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

And further news to Ferrari's suspected cheating, from Thursday until race completion, both Ferrari cars will be fitted with devices that will monitor the Ferrari ERS system, as it has been under suspicion for a while now.

You're the only one referring to it as cheating though?

ARS -

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

And further news to Ferrari's suspected cheating, from Thursday until race completion, both Ferrari cars will be fitted with devices that will monitor the Ferrari ERS system,

This is a totally separate matter - and bears no relation to your allegations of cheating made previously.

'The FIA [...] points out there is nothing illegal about the architecture of the Ferrari system – and that if any team is convinced that something illicit is going on, it should lodge a formal protest'

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Ferrari obviously were not very keen on fitting the monitoring system to their cars, but the FiA insisted that they must do so.

'Data from the first five races is still being analysed by the FIA in an ongoing process, and Ferrari is co-operating fully.'

Are you Lauda's alter ego?

'questions raised by Mercedes’ Niki Lauda.'
'This is what has been vexing Lauda who has been quite outspoken in his calling for the FIA to make a ruling'

[Akrapovic]

The trolling is getting boring now. Seems every thread is now just a case of F1Guy pushing an agenda. The posts don't even fit the links being posted.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

The trolling is getting boring now. Seems every thread is now just a case of F1Guy pushing an agenda. The posts don't even fit the links being posted.

Unless something changes, RIP ten-tenths

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Unless something changes, RIP ten-tenths

Don't go to the sportscar side, it's even worse with 2 people constantly pushing their personal agenda complete with false stats and weblinks often show the opposite what they claim. Sadly I think tenths won't last another 24 months as it has been and my motorsports news source will have to change again

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

[wnut]

Teams agree to dump the MGU-H for the good of the sport

http://www.f1reader.com/list/news/la...ort-039-198127

Fuel limitations are also going to be dropped apparently, can only hope.

Budget caps also being revisited, $150 million a year being touted in the face of Merc opposition to the limit saying it is too low!
If you are paying Lewis $40 million a year, I guess you are not left with much!

Nice to see Liberty and the FIA standing firm and forcing through necessary changes.

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

And further news to Ferrari's suspected cheating, from Thursday until race completion, both Ferrari cars will be fitted with devices that will monitor the Ferrari ERS system, as it has been under suspicion for a while now.

It seems as Ferrari will not be using the ERS monitoring hardware for the race itself. The FiA are satisfied with their investigation on Thursday that Ferrari are not "cheating". The cars were only monitored during free practice one and two.

Why not monitor the cars during qualifying and the race? And why monitor at Monaco? Probably the only track on the calendar where outright HP makes the least impact. Strange decision by the FiA.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mo...-idUKKCN1IR0SB

[Akrapovic]

You cannot ask a team to install additional hardware during qualifying or race, a time when the additional weight gives a performance disadvantage. Either everyone has it, or nobody has it, similar to the dummy cameras. Realistically, practice is the only fair time to do that kind of spot checking.

Also, given the ERS strengths are underbraking and acceleration, not outright HP numbers and top speeds, Monaco is a perfectly reasonable circuit to run this monitoring system on. Silverstone is actually one of the worst for ERS as the cars struggle to recover all the energy required for a full recharge due to the lack of decent braking zones.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

It seems as Ferrari will not be using the ERS monitoring hardware for the race itself. The FiA are satisfied with their investigation on Thursday that Ferrari are not "cheating". The cars were only monitored during free practice one and two.

Why not monitor the cars during qualifying and the race?

So the FiA failed to find any evidence of your claim? Yet you still insist on using the term 'cheat'?

Obviously they've gained enough data to determine how the Ferrari ERS works, and that the battery arrangement (which complies fully with regulations) does not operate in a non-compliant manner.

[F1Guy]

Some comments from Charlie Whiting on the investigation.

Charlie Whiting: "We are now satisfied everything is in order.

"The matter was exacerbated by unsubstantiated allegations that went through the paddock like wildfire. It came from a Ferrari engine man now at Mercedes, but his information would be the length of his gardening leave old.

"If we had a hard case, we would have gone to the stewards, but we didn’t have anything. If they felt they had anything substantial to question, they could have made a protest.

"We had concerns in Baku that we couldn’t explain. In Spain, Ferrari showed us things that helped satisfy us that they were inside the rules.

"We first looked at data, digging quite deep. We had to understand whether Ferrari’s explanations were valid. We were never in doubt that things were above board, but by Friday night we were convinced. We have some pretty clever guys working for us now to spot this kind of thing.

"We will probably ask Ferrari to run new hardware at future races to make it easier for us to monitor, but we have a system here in Monaco to establish what is happening without an additional sensor."

That last paragraph is interesting. At first CW says the FiA is "satisfied everything is in order." But then goes on to say further monitoring may take place at future races??

This is a can of worms is it not? If the FiA are satisfied no "cheating" is taking place, then why the need for further monitoring down the track, by which, prolonging the cheating rumours in the paddock further into the season??

What would happen if the FiA were to find something that is deemed not legal further down the calendar? Would they then act on their findings and possibly disqualify Ferrari from the championship(s)?? I highly doubt it, specially if Ferrari are in a tight battle for the championship(s). Bad decision by the FiA. They should've said the investigation is complete, no further action. By saying the FiA may continue to monitor Ferrari's ERS system, leaves the door open for further questioning IMO.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Some comments from Charlie Whiting on the investigation.
That last paragraph is interesting. At first CW says the FiA is "satisfied everything is in order." But then goes on to say further monitoring may take place at future races??

This is a can of worms is it not? If the FiA are satisfied no "cheating" is taking place, then why the need for further monitoring down the track, by which, prolonging the cheating rumours in the paddock further into the season??

What would happen if the FiA were to find something that is deemed not legal further down the calendar? Would they then act on their findings and possibly disqualify Ferrari from the championship(s)?? I highly doubt it, specially if Ferrari are in a tight battle for the championship(s). Bad decision by the FiA. They should've said the investigation is complete, no further action. By saying the FiA may continue to monitor Ferrari's ERS system, leaves the door open for further questioning IMO.

Try reading CW's statement again without an anti-Ferrari bias.

There was never an investigation, and the only claim of cheating was made on this forum.

They took the decision to install a monitoring device just to back up the assessment of compliance they had already reached. No harm in applying a confidence check - it's regular practice in engineering work.

He then raises the possibility of a future monitoring device, which I would imagine is so that it will be easier to refute allegations in future, not to uncover a breach of regulations.

Is it so hard to accept that if CW is content, then the ridiculous allegations of cheating can stop - not repeatedly trolled out here?

[S griffin]

Ferrari are just using the rules to their best advantage and Charlie Whiting is happy for them. No proof of cheating here

[Peter Mallett]

Should return to proper engines, 3litre V8s then Ferrari can run their 4l version at Monza like the old days.

[F1Guy]

I don't have access to the SkyF1 telecast atm, but apparently Martin had said Ferrari were most likely doing something illegal, also said something along the lines of the FiA has swept it under the carpet for the benefit of the sport (??). Nico Rosberg also commented on the issue apparently?
Anyone who's watching SkyF1 could you fill me in on the conversation that took place please?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by wnut

Teams agree to dump the MGU-H for the good of the sport

http://www.f1reader.com/list/news/la...ort-039-198127

Fuel limitations are also going to be dropped apparently, can only hope.

Budget caps also being revisited, $150 million a year being touted in the face of Merc opposition to the limit saying it is too low!
If you are paying Lewis $40 million a year, I guess you are not left with much!

Nice to see Liberty and the FIA standing firm and forcing through necessary changes.

Driver, team management and a few other items are excluded from the budget cap. Please actually read the limits proposed, the reason for MB and Ferrari complaints is they would make almost 50% for Mercedes and 40% for Ferrari of the workforce redundant to meet the cap.

Fuel limits restriction were brought up by Wolff but apparently only in passing not as a serious point.