[WEC] Rebellion Racing

[TF110]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Beyond a likely AER fail, dallare solved a severe undercar aero issue with just a pair of winglets.... I expect something like this too:

I thought it flew mostly because of the nature of Eau Rouge and being behind the Toyota? Is that not what was said? You don't have turns with that kind of elevation change at Le Mans but they went ahead and changed it up anyway. I'm a little disappointed in the top speeds. I was thinking we were going to see them approach 350kmh. Maybe they do and the speed traps aren't indicative of this.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

But this is the first time ever that I've read in a rule book that a factory team should automatically be faster per rules, to the tune of .5 of a second around Le Mans.

That's just because they never bothered to tell anyone how much faster they were guaranteeing the diesels to be. We sure heard Audi complain when they weren't in IMSA.

[chernaudi]

Maybe we should remember that they were being beaten by LMP2 cars that were factory efforts in a class that the ACO intended to be for privateers.

Or that IMSA were very generous with hand outs that they give privateers in late 2006 (we have to remember that due to car issues that Dyson didn't just struggle against the R10, but also against the R8 and even the Penske RS Spyders). However, Audi did beat all opposition in '06 and only because IMSA didn't go with ACO BOP on LMP2s for the full season (and when they did they unwittingly gave LMP2s a stint length advantage) did they have problems in '07.

And also may I add that the gaps were even bigger, especially at Le Mans, in the R8 days. And that was a car that was built to the same exact rules as everyone else and used the same fuel.

Sorry for going on of a rant, but my point is that IMO it matters little to nothing as far as factory vs privateer, diesel vs gasoline, hybrid vs non-hybrid, you're stuck with trying to balance apples to oranges, especially when factory teams with their resources are involved.

And that's also my point about the ACO wanting Toyota to have a .5 of a second a lap advantage around Le Mans. They're the factory team with the $100 million or so budget now, and I'd argue that they don't need help from the sanctioning body or a guarantee that they should be faster, whether they asked for it or not. I frankly don't know why the ACO wrote that rule in from the beginning of the season, because we already saw at Spa that Toyota should more than likely have the edge.

[carbsmith]

It's not a rule, it's a target. Doesn't matter how much money Toyota has (particularly being performance wise the car is basically frozen since last year) if you give the privateers enough rope they can all run 3:10s or whatever. The Ford GTs have more money in them than any of the LMP privateers, it doesn't make them faster.

Ideally they'd say they want privateers to run 3:15.000 in qualifying or whatever, but because you're dealing with moving targets with track changes, weather, testing regimes, etc. and only have that one test day it's just not that simple. You have to guess where they are from your known benchmark, which is the mostly unchanged Toyota.

[Deleted]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/0...ng-beyond.html

“We have to prepare for 2019, and if something is to happen in 2018, it’s not from our pace, it’s not because we have a fantastic car, it’s because something happens on the Toyota side. But, for the moment, that’s not our target. For me, the only thing that’s really important is that we are there to take the opportunity if it arises. That means reliability and no driver mistakes. That’s all we ask of the team.”

With that in mind, the words "we" and "our", will he actually be standing in the Swiss garage this time around instead of Toyota because of the 'conflicts of interest'?

I mean he may still show emotion on screen if/when the hopes of Toyota blow up in the air 8 am on Sunday morning but if it's Oreca chassis in the first place afterwards...?

[Aysedasi]

Well, Hugues was very happy to be photographed as an integral part of the Rebellion team at scrutineering. He's one of the few that would hope to be 'on a winner' whichever way it pans out.... The sentiment is absolutely on the money. There is no reason why the Rebs or any other non-hybrid team should expect to be on a par with Toyota this year.

[canaglia]

Actually rebellion strategy is quite easy to me:
Just be regularly slightly faster than BR1 AER and waif for toyota fails.

[Aysedasi]

Yes, it's as simple as that.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by TF110

I thought it flew mostly because of the nature of Eau Rouge and being behind the Toyota? Is that not what was said? You don't have turns with that kind of elevation change at Le Mans but they went ahead and changed it up anyway. I'm a little disappointed in the top speeds. I was thinking we were going to see them approach 350kmh. Maybe they do and the speed traps aren't indicative of this.

Let me understand, running through the eau rouge behind a toyota justifies a cars going airborne?


I'm not an engineer but to me airborne car = badly projected car.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Actually rebellion strategy is quite easy to me:
Just be regularly slightly faster than BR1 AER and waif for toyota fails.

No need to be faster than BR1 as AER is ticking time bomb

Originally Posted by canaglia

Let me understand, running through the eau rouge behind a toyota justifies a cars going airborne?

I'm not an engineer but to me airborne car = badly projected car.

So was Peugeot 908 HDI FAP badly projected car?

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Yes, it's as simple as that.

Yeah, if you consider recent toyota records; they had a LM smooth race only in 2013 and 2015. When basically they had any competitive pace

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Chiana

No need to be faster than BR1 as AER is ticking time bomb



So was Peugeot 908 HDI FAP badly projected car?

Well, at least 908HDI didn't fly in its debut race

BR1 (or dallara lmp2+ as I use to call it) had a lot of electronics fails, included one that lead to dragonspeed huge crash and went airborne the very next day. Not the safest car for sure.
And ther car wasn't even a fresh and still uncharted stuff like a RB13 could be, considering that according to dallara and SMP, BR1 went through a year long test sessions.


Anyway, a car going airborne has serious undercar aero issues! you can't just use winglets to compensate that and then pretending everything is fine now. At least IMHO.

[Deleted]

What about the Courage that flew in Monza 2008?

I don't know, I mean it's worrying what you had with the Dallara here but I think "well established" chassis getting airborne is equally so because you don't expect anything out of normality

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Chiana

What about the Courage that flew in Monza 2008?

I don't know, I mean it's worrying what you had with the Dallara here but I think "well established" chassis getting airborne is equally so because you don't expect anything out of normality

Do you mean Ortelli brutal crash?


Well, in that case the car went airborne as consequence of a suspension/brake fail. It wasn't an aero issue.
Just completely different situation.


Actually I didn't expect anything special.... just that a car stays on the ground



Any other car but a BR1 went airborne through the eau rouge during WEC week-end.... so....

[Deleted]

Failure caused by other reasons, I don't think any chassis should go airborne after that (especially considering the LC70 didn't even hit anything afterwards)

But yes don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you

This should really be on the SMP thread though

[ederss7]

279,8 km/h of average speed for the no. 3 through the Porsche curves... That's the fastest ever, though the section where the speed is recorded has been shortened, probably by cutting the last corner, so we can't compare it to the previous fastest average of 270 km/h.

[Juntos]

I am impressed with Bruno Senna. He gave a lesson to his celebrities/teammates.

[ederss7]

Originally Posted by ederss7

279,8 km/h of average speed for the no. 3 through the Porsche curves... That's the fastest ever, though the section where the speed is recorded has been shortened, probably by cutting the last corner, so we can't compare it to the previous fastest average of 270 km/h.

Update: 280 km/h by B. Senna. Unbelievable!
here's the lap, which is also Rebellion's fastest lap of Q1.
https://youtu.be/a6TXoqyCVks?t=1282

[TF110]

I think there's definitely more to come. They hardly improved their time if at all from the test day. We'll see, that is if the weather plays nice I think.

[silente]

they are still coasting before some braking points...i thought the new fuel flow of 108kg/h should avoid this...

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Juntos

I am impressed with Bruno Senna. He gave a lesson to his celebrities/teammates.

Seriously underrated in my view. He may not have the talent of his uncle, but he's good enough to show Lotterer and Jani a few things in that car.

[chernaudi]

Based on theoretical best lap times, Rebellion should hopefully be capable of 3:18s, which is reasonably close to what Toyota so far have turned.

It should be noted that one Toyota did 342km/h during FP1, with the SMP BR1s also quick, but the Rebellions are down on top speed. Combined with their sector 1/3 times, that shows that they're carrying a ton of downforce.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Based on theoretical best lap times, Rebellion should hopefully be capable of 3:18s, which is reasonably close to what Toyota so far have turned.

Rebellions can't match the Toyota's pace. They better focus on their own pace than trying to go for an impossible victory. Acceptance of what has happened is the first step to overcoming the consequences of any misfortune.

[chernaudi]

The problem is that we don't know what the drop off will be for the privateers vs the Toyotas (factory cars). We do know that Toyota won't be able to run anything close to what they qualified in the race. If Rebellion can get to within a couple of seconds of what Toyota can do in race trim, then we might have a race on our hands if Toyota slip up.

[Damian Baldi]

The Toyotas seem to do race laps in 3.21 3.23, with longest stints, I don't know how the non-hybrid cars could race against them. I see difficult for them (any team, not only Rebellion) to sustain a race in 3.22

Let's see, I hope to be wrong and watch an interesting race.