March 782

[David Newall]

Hi Guys,

I raced the Staggers Jeans 782/78B in the 1983 British Formula Atlantic Championship, the car is the same one that Duncan Bain raced in 1982, I bought it from him early in 83. The car had a chassis plate but I can't remember the number although I sure it had 78B stamped on it but I don't have access to my records at present. Due to the championship being cancelled in 84 I sold the car to a French guy who was going to use it for European hill climbing. The car was collected by Richardson's the engine builders who were going to remove and rebuild the 1600 BDA, they may be able to help with his name and move the search on.

Hope this helps

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by David Newall

Hi Guys,

I raced the Staggers Jeans 782/78B in the 1983 British Formula Atlantic Championship, the car is the same one that Duncan Bain raced in 1982, I bought it from him early in 83. The car had a chassis plate but I can't remember the number although I sure it had 78B stamped on it but I don't have access to my records at present. Due to the championship being cancelled in 84 I sold the car to a French guy who was going to use it for European hill climbing. The car was collected by Richardson's the engine builders who were going to remove and rebuild the 1600 BDA, they may be able to help with his name and move the search on.

Hope this helps

David, welcome, and thanks for that information which is a big help. Do you have paperwork somewhere that might eventually throw some light on the chassis?

I have another question:
In June 1984 you advertised for sale a Ralt RT3/82-3. I don't think you ever raced it, but can you remember who you bought it from and sold it to?

Chris

[Dan Rear]

Chris, be interested to hear if David can identify the car. I suspected it may be the ex-Cheever/Kirby car, tho' this is only a guess and because that car seems to go missing after 1980-81, and Bain may have known Kirby from their Clubmans days. Far from conclusive evidence I admit!

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

Chris, be interested to hear if David can identify the car. I suspected it may be the ex-Cheever/Kirby car, tho' this is only a guess and because that car seems to go missing after 1980-81, and Bain may have known Kirby from their Clubmans days. Far from conclusive evidence I admit!

Dan, it looks like Charlie Kirby took the Cheever car with him when he moved to the US in 1981. The car is for sale in On Track by Transatlantic Racing Services, 3125 Gateway Dr, Norcross, GA 30071 'March 782/B F/A roller ex Eddie Cheever/Project 4'. Kirby was one of the partners in this company according to Autosport and moved to the US about that time.

Admittedly a real 78B, rather than converted 782, for Bain and David Newall represents something of a problem given that almost all the production goes to USA and Japan - however, it might account for the Ian Scheckter 78B that goes missing in South Africa after August 1979. As we've seen with 77Bs there is a bit of traffic back from ZA.

Chris

[maguire imp chassis no1]

Hello thankyou for reading my post,do any of you great people know anything about a march f3 stilletto car that was made,i dont know what model it is or what year it is,or even who converted it the body is in two pieces and it splits in the middle behind the driver,it possibly had a bda ford engine fitted at the start,any help you can give would be much appreciated,thankyou in advance


Keith scott ireland

[driftwood]

Sheckters 78B is in the museum in ZA
Im sure Kirby had the pukka 782 cheever car

Imp with march uprights i can think of 2 or 3 cars built need fotos of car previous owners name to ID that car so mail me direct

[Dan Rear]

Nice to see you back DW. WE know Kirby had the Cheever car, the question is, is it the same one David Newall got from Bain?

[driftwood]

It was lonely in siberia!
have you missed me?
the Duncan Bain newall car is the mystery Martin mansell car i spoke of long time back
(2007 early 08) that he acquired in pieces from midlands.he cant recall of whom & didnt know chassis # and sold half share to Duncan then Duncan took over his share end of season
I have tried to contact DB in oz but no reply will try again

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Sheckters 78B is in the museum in ZA

Oh no it's not
see http://harpmotorsport.com/index.php?projects

What purports to be the Scheckter car in ZA is in fact one iteration of 782-2 [Rad Dougall/Paul Smith] done up in his colours

Scheckter had a 78B, and there is no sign of it

Chris

PS welcome back to society, I hope that you have learned your lesson and are suitably reformed

[driftwood]

reformed? hell no
i had to pick up some soap in the shower and it hurt!
I will ask Steve about that car post 78 existance
at the end of 78 did he debut the 79B?

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by driftwood

reformed? hell no
i had to pick up some soap in the shower and it hurt!
I will ask Steve about that car post 78 existance
at the end of 78 did he debut the 79B?

I am involved with some very good charities for rehabilitating ex cons, providing hostel accommodation and the like, so you don't have to sleep rough...

I've now, I think, found where the Scheckter 78B went.

The South African Championship for 1979 began 10 October 1978, beginning of the summer.
Scheckter still had 78B then
First 79B to appear is for Klomfass 28 October and is described as the prototype model;
Van Rooyen has one 2 December which is described as new the previous week.

27 January 79 Scheckter has a 79A - that is the ground effect car NOT a 79B and Clive Cooke has what is described as the ex Scheckter 78B.

The Scheckter 79A stays in South Africa going to Tommy Dunn and then Roy Moss

Because of the change in formula in mid 1979, with the BDA being replaced by home grown engines [what came to be dominated by Mazda] the big teams in ZA got rid of quite a few of their cars.

Ted Titmus told me that he bought three cars from South Africa mid season 1979 [79Bs he said] and was quite specific about livery on them when they arrived in California.
One had Gunston livery, so has to be the ex van Rooyen car,
One had Lexington - so ex Scheckter, but has to the 78B as the 79 car stays in ZA. Titmus also told me this was last car to arrive, maybe even early 1980, which ties with Cooke having the car for sale in August 1979.
One had Texas livery, so Klomfass prototype car.

One of these cars is probably 79B-4 which has been sold as having South African history, even though it has been in the States a long time and was raced for several seasons by Jim Oppermann. Oppermann seems to have this car by June 80, and the history of the other two cars suggests to me this must have been van Rooyen's. [And the delivery of a car in November 78 for van Rooyen supports an early chassis number but not "the prototype"]

Where did those other two go?
The Klomfass car, Titmus said, was sold to the Shelton brothers. Now, they already had one car [chassis 10] delivered new in 1979 for Steve, so this is presumably the car raced by Tom in 1980/81. Since 79B-10 seems to be the car sold to John Gibson and for sale On Track 14.4.86 p. 93 "ex S.Shelton not raced since 1980", it looks as though the Tom Shelton car must be the one raced by Ron Levanduski, 85-86 and for sale On Track 26.5.86 p. 88 "ex Shelton".

Titmus kept one, which Peter Kuhn failed to qualify at Long Beach in 1980, then rented it to Joe Kelly for Long Beach 1981 and used it himself at Mexico City. Ted insisted this was the ex Scheckter car, and I was sceptical about this, given the history of the 79A. But it makes perfect sense as the ex Scheckter-Cooke 78B. Did Cooke race it in Lexington colours? I'm going to pass, for now, on what eventually happened to this car but Titmus probably sold it to help finance his deal with three RT3s for rent-a-drive Mexicans.


Chris

[driftwood]

I will take up your offer of hostelling but i do need designer lable clothing( i still have an image to uphold! ) got any armani suits calvin klien boxer shorts?

I was reading 1979 autosports a while back and there where in the winter issues many Za atlantic cars advertised

Did Ted "loose" a march in the mexican stand off he had or was it all ralts?

[Chris Townsend]

Looking back on my notes from my conversations with Ted, it seems as though the Scheckter 78B might have been sold to Juan Carlos Bolanos in 1981.

This was not part of the Monterey incident; Ted seems to have had good relationships with the Bolanos brothers. Gustavo bought his ex Tim Cooper 722

[Alex E]

One of you experts must be able to answer this. In the attached press photo you can see Giacomelli`s car has a smaller radiator inlet & the front roll-hoop is a different design. Any ideas why ?
Alex

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by Alex E

One of you experts must be able to answer this. In the attached press photo you can see Giacomelli`s car has a smaller radiator inlet & the front roll-hoop is a different design. Any ideas why ?
Alex

Probably because it's the prototype 782-PM.
Though I suspect that the narrower radiator inlet might have been an option for all cars, and pretty necessary at Silverstone in late February

Chris

[Bernard Tilanus]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Sheckters 78B is in the museum in ZA
Im sure Kirby had the pukka 782 cheever car

Imp with march uprights i can think of 2 or 3 cars built need fotos of car previous owners name to ID that car so mail me direct

Hi Driftwood,
That is not Sheckters car in the museum, it is the ex Toleman 782 chassis no 2, I owened it and raced it in SA with a Rotary Mazda it was bought from Smith by DAW.
Will email you a pic of Sheckters car I think it was no 3 and the pic will explain why it is not his car.
Bernard Tilauns.

[Bernard Tilanus]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Sheckters 78B is in the museum in ZA
Im sure Kirby had the pukka 782 cheever car

Imp with march uprights i can think of 2 or 3 cars built need fotos of car previous owners name to ID that car so mail me direct

Hi Have a look at attachment and you will see were Sheckters car is, dose not excist, it was on the way to cape town were I was to race it, the transporter caught alight.
The car in museum is the ex Toleman car chassis no 2 and some one in the UK says he has no2 and is tryiong to sell it.
No 2 is in the museum in the coulors that Ian used to drive under.
Bernard Tilanus.

[davyboy]

Looks like the ex-Jo Gartner chassis 782-24 has come up for sale in Austria today.

Racecarsdirect ad here.

[davyboy]

Chassis 782-16 up for auction.

[falbo78214]

For the Record keepers, Chassis 782-14 is Located in the USA. It has been our car for the last 20 + years. We have not run the car since 1990. Car has spares and body molds. Might be thinking of selling it. Car is fitted with a Cosworth.

[cdrewett]

[QUOTE=James Murray;2498323]Dan


Not sure about the Meyrick car. I think its 782-2 which has a chequered history and covered here before but in short Paul Smith had 782-2 in early 80's and possibly 2 cars came out of one. There is another car in ZA with chassis plate 782-2. I think Meyrick has 782-12 which was ex Toleman and genuine and also a bitza that was built up by Bill Wood for hillclimbing with 783 tub, BDG and FT200.

I've just stumbled across this thread, and thought I would add a bit of history to the "iffy" 782 that I hillclimbed from 1988 to 2002.
As far as I know, Tom Hart wanted to build a hillclimber and went along to March at the end of the 1978 season and picked up a 783 tub, 782 suspension, 783 brakes, 782 body except for the sidepods which were 783, and a 782 rear wing.The nosecone was 792 and ugly.
He fitted a BDG on Webers and an FT200.
The car was sold to Billy MacMillan and then Bill Wood. Bill told me he found he didn't enjoy single seaters and went back to Mallock. He sold the car to David Keogh who sold it to me at Christmas 1987.
I had wanted a Pilbeam and sold my March 77b to fund it, but by the time I did, the Pilbeam was sold to someone else.
So in a bit of a hurry, because the 2litre class was being launched, I bought the March. The handling was iffy to begin with but a full width 782 nose cured that.
Over the next 14 years it provided great fun, some success including FTD at Shelsley, 2 championship wins in the 2 litre class and numerous class wins.
The issue about its provenance never arose until there were some historic F2 races and series.
If I had cared about its history or future value I suppose I could have removed the 783 chassis plate and passed it off as an unknown 782. It went via Paul Matty to Peach and then Meyrick, and I have no idea whether it still exists as an entity.

[allenbrown]

Thanks very much for that Chris - very helpful indeed.

[EricLangbein]

Hello all, and thanks for some interesting reading! I own a vintage race shop in the US, and we are restoring 78B-14. Do I understand correctly that this car is actually 782-14, just rebadged as 78B when it was converted from F2 to Atlantic BDD spec?

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by EricLangbein

Hello all, and thanks for some interesting reading! I own a vintage race shop in the US, and we are restoring 78B-14. Do I understand correctly that this car is actually 782-14, just rebadged as 78B when it was converted from F2 to Atlantic BDD spec?

No, the 782 and 78B cars were numbered separately. 782-14 was originally Eddie Cheever's F2 car, but, just to confuse everyone, it was later converted into a Formula Atlantic car and raced in the UK as a 78B.

78B/14 was sold to North America, and Chris and I at OldRacingCars.com have quite a bit of information on it, including various stamped numbers that will allow you to confirm its identity. Can you tell us about its recent ownership?

[EricLangbein]

The car is currently owned by Joe Blacker, and was previously owned by Holger Ahl, who Vintage raced 78B-14 for a number of years. I will get more info about Holger’s time with the car, as I am in touch with him regularly. Joe only drove the car once a few years ago after buying it from Holger, then took the motor out to have it freshened (by Hank Clarkson)- one project led to another, and our shop got the car as a disassembled project, and we are restoring it. We plan on running the car at Lime Rock in September. We would love to know all we could about this car’s history- thanks