Future Grands Prix? - Page 78

chillibowl · 31 Aug 2018, 16:19 (Ref:3847270)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Wouldn't it make more sense to improve the racing, rather than extending the season, otherwise 2019 could potentially turn into a very long snooze fest?

generally i agree that too long of a calendar is an issue (for personal reasons 16-18 is my ideal number) but now that Ferrari are properly back in the mix, a longer calendar with a proper development war going on might just make it more exciting at the sharp end.

of course the rest of the teams will suffer as they stretch their relatively much smaller budgets across more races which arguably means they will turn down performance a bit at all the races.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 31 Aug 2018, 17:15 (Ref:3847278)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

generally i agree that too long of a calendar is an issue (for personal reasons 16-18 is my ideal number) but now that Ferrari are properly back in the mix, a longer calendar with a proper development war going on might just make it more exciting at the sharp end.

of course the rest of the teams will suffer as they stretch their relatively much smaller budgets across more races which arguably means they will turn down performance a bit at all the races.

I always thought 18 races was a good number. I think that makes the season long enough for a development war, which is something very much at the heart of motorsport and that would give those smaller teams a better chance, which you rightly point out they wouldn't necessarily have, with budgets being stretched.

NaBUru38 · 31 Aug 2018, 18:59 (Ref:3847291)

Liberty, please drop Bahrain and Azerbaijan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

I see they have decided to arrange the deckchairs at Hockenheim.

Another thing that doesn’t address the problems of F1. What are they messing at.

Of the real problems with F1, Liberty has little influence.

BSchneiderFan · 31 Aug 2018, 22:41 (Ref:3847321)

Why is everyone so down on Baku? I think it’s a very picturesque circuit, and it brings something different to the championship. (But, please, let’s not be calling it the “European” Grand Prix.)

Rob29 · 1 Sep 2018, 07:44 (Ref:3847354)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Why is everyone so down on Baku? I think it’s a very picturesque circuit, and it brings something different to the championship. (But, please, let’s not be calling it the “European” Grand Prix.)

Agree there-Monaco;Singapore;Baku;Albert Park;Montreal?

S griffin · 1 Sep 2018, 08:49 (Ref:3847359)

Hardly anyone turns up to watch Baku, that's I think the reason why

dsg · 1 Sep 2018, 08:59 (Ref:3847364)

I'd get rid of Sochi before Baku.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 1 Sep 2018, 12:54 (Ref:3847382)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Liberty, please drop Bahrain and Azerbaijan.

Of the real problems with F1, Liberty has little influence.

The last two races at Baku have been superb, there are number of tracks I'd put at the top of my get rid of list, before I got to Baku.

E.B · 1 Sep 2018, 15:27 (Ref:3847404)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Wouldn't it make more sense to improve the racing, rather than extending the season, otherwise 2019 could potentially turn into a very long snooze fest?

We have had many season starts in January, even Jan 1st, in 1965 (and other years) which meant practice / qualifying was technically run the previous year.... December 31st 1964).

In 1962 and 1963 we did have a season ending South African GP on 28th and 29th December.

1959 the season ended on 12th December at Sebring.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 1 Sep 2018, 15:41 (Ref:3847407)

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.B

We have had many season starts in January, even Jan 1st, in 1965 (and other years) which meant practice / qualifying was technically run the previous year.... December 31st 1964).

In 1962 and 1963 we did have a season ending South African GP on 28th and 29th December.

1959 the season ended on 12th December at Sebring.

That was some time ago and there weren't so many races on the calendar, so they were spread out; it's hardly comparable. Next year, it will be 21 races.

Purist · 1 Sep 2018, 17:47 (Ref:3847417)

Actually, there was a season in there that I've seen the listing for, where Jim Clark ran something like 22 significant open-wheel races in a season, between F1, Tasman, and probably some other stuff.

**Adam43** · 1 Sep 2018, 20:35 (Ref:3847441)

Which is one of the reasons why the aren’t F1 drivers boring because they don’t race in other series point is a poor one.

Purist · 1 Sep 2018, 22:39 (Ref:3847470)

Running in other series wasn't necessary to make things quite busy. There were 24 F1 races in 1963, 18 in '64, and 17 in '65 and '67.

jimclark · 1 Sep 2018, 23:49 (Ref:3847495)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purist

Running in other series wasn't necessary to make things quite busy. There were 24 F1 races in 1963, 18 in '64, and 17 in '65 and '67.

Huh??? Methinks you're off by just a weee li'l bit.....

How aboot 10, 10, 10, and 11?

http://www.statsf1.com/en/1963.aspx http://www.statsf1.com/en/1964.aspx http://www.statsf1.com/en/1965.aspx http://www.statsf1.com/en/1967.aspx

chavez · 2 Sep 2018, 01:25 (Ref:3847500)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimclark

Huh??? Methinks you're off by just a weee li'l bit.....

How aboot 10, 10, 10, and 11?

http://www.statsf1.com/en/1963.aspx http://www.statsf1.com/en/1964.aspx http://www.statsf1.com/en/1965.aspx http://www.statsf1.com/en/1967.aspx

Remember that there were a number of Formula Once races that weren't part of the World Championship.

jimclark · 2 Sep 2018, 02:14 (Ref:3847504)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chavez

Remember that there were a number of Formula Once races that weren't part of the World Championship.

'Haven't forgotten, but 14 in '63, fer instance? I know of a few but not as many as you state here. Is there a source of results for them? I'd really be interested in the venues and outcomes.
Anywho, you mentioned 'significant" races above. I wouldn't have considered the non-champ races for the variety of races drivers did as significant.
'S'all good any which way.

edit: Disregard the source request. Google was my friend.

http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/a.../f1/title.html

Purist · 2 Sep 2018, 04:28 (Ref:3847516)

There's also the bottom of each season's Wikipedia page, which has a listing of the non-championship races.

jimclark · 2 Sep 2018, 05:19 (Ref:3847519)

Yeah, see that, but silhouet's got 'em all right there.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 3 Sep 2018, 03:27 (Ref:3847797)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimclark

'Haven't forgotten, but 14 in '63, fer instance? I know of a few but not as many as you state here. Is there a source of results for them? I'd really be interested in the venues and outcomes.
Anywho, you mentioned 'significant" races above. I wouldn't have considered the non-champ races for the variety of races drivers did as significant.
'S'all good any which way.

edit: Disregard the source request. Google was my friend.

http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/a.../f1/title.html

Some of those non-championship F1 races, like the GKN-Daily Express Trophy, which was held at Silverstone and the Race of Champions at Brands Hatch were significant, in that they gave F1 fans a chance to see the cars and drivers race, especially the new cars before the season really got started.

In the early to mid '70s, the F1 season typically started in South America, in January and then moved onto South Africa in March. The European season wouldn't get started until the end of April so there was a bit of a wait for the season to get going. They were essentially a PR exercise but it worked.

The GKN-Daily Express Trophy, Silver Jubilee in 1973, was the very first car race I ever went to. I was 12 and I got to see my hero Jackie Stewart win in the new Tyrrell 006. I also got to see the new McLaren M23, in the hands of Denny Hulme and reigning WDC Emmo in the JPS Lotus 72, so from a personal level it was very significant.

Rob29 · 3 Sep 2018, 16:48 (Ref:3847923)

There was olso the tasman series o8 races which most F1 drivers & teams ran-In 1961 Intercontinental championship held only in England

jimclark · 4 Sep 2018, 00:21 (Ref:3848008)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob29

There was olso the tasman series o8 races which most F1 drivers & teams ran

IIRC, F1 chassis with 2.5 litres, correct?

Oldtony · 4 Sep 2018, 01:15 (Ref:3848013)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimclark

IIRC, F1 chassis with 2.5 litres, correct?

Yes, during the 1.5ltr F1 period.

Then went to 3ltr when F1 went that way.
Very competitive series between the top F1 drivers of the era.

jimclark · 4 Sep 2018, 01:32 (Ref:3848017)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Yes, during the 1.5ltr F1 period.

Then went to 3ltr when F1 went that way.
Very competitive series between the top F1 drivers of the era.

With all due respect, I think (90% sure) they were 2.5 during the 3 litre F1 seasons.
I'm sure I read it somewhere back in the late '60s but I don't have ('wish I did) those old magazines anymore. Oh well, a new project.

edit: Ah-ha!!! The ol' noodle still has some function left.

:

"From 1964 to 1969, the Tasman Formula specified open-wheel single-seater racing cars similar to Formula One cars, yet retaining F1 engine rules that were in effect until 1960. Thus, engines of 2500 cm³ that were obsolete for the contemporary Formula One class were eligible for the Tasman Formula.

After F1 upgraded to 3000 cm³ in 1966, the Tasman Formula regulations continued to specify a 2500 cm³ limit for another four years. Usually, the chassis of the previous F1 season were fitted with "Tasman" engines, and entered "down under". In what many[who?] consider Tasman's zenith season, 1968, Cosworth even produced a Tasman variant of its legendary DFV V8, known as the DFW, and BRM equipped its cars with a reduced capacity version of their F1 V12. In 1969 both Lotus and Ferrari contested the series with two cars teams, Jochen Rindt and Graham Hill in Lotus 49BTs and Chris Amon and Derek Bell in 2.4 Dino V6 cars which used F2 chassis fitted with modernised versions of the late 1950s F1 Dino engine. Piers Courage strongly challenged the work teams in a Frank Williams Cosworth 2.5 BT24 Brabham which beat the Lotus and Ferrari teams at Teretonga in New Zealand.

Unfortunately for the Tasman Series, F1's "return to power", coupled to ever increasing costs, reduced the cachet of its Antipodean sister and after 1969 teams became increasingly unwilling to invest significant funds into what many perceived as a lesser championship. Only one Cosworth DFW 2.5 powered car appeared in the 1970 and 1971 Tasman series, Bell driving an uncompetitive Goodyear shod Wheatcroft Brabham BT26 in 3 rounds in 1970 and Amon and fellow Kiwi David Oxton each contesting 2 rounds of 1971 series in the ex Andretti March 701.

In an attempt to reduce costs, the Tasman Formula was extended to incorporate Formula 5000 cars from 1970[1] and the limit on pure racing engines was reduced from 2.5 litres to 2.0 litres from 1972.[2] Even these changes failed to contain spiralling costs and at the end of the 1975 event the series folded.

The four Australian former Tasman races became the Rothmans International Series from 1976 to 1979 (still under Formula 5000 regulations). The four New Zealand races became the 'Peter Stuyvesant Series' and after 1976 changed to Formula Pacific cars."

Oldtony · 4 Sep 2018, 04:58 (Ref:3848050)

My Bad!
One of the great memories of my life was sitting on the hill a Lakeside in Practice in I think 1965 watching and listening as Jim Clark wound the Tasman Lotus up chasing the first 100mph lap time for a 100quid bet with Sid Sakzewski the circuit promoter.
He finally got to go through the Kink flat.
The next day he and Frank Matich both broke the 100mph lap barrier at 54.9 sec

jimclark · 4 Sep 2018, 06:56 (Ref:3848065)

All good...50 years ago IS getting kinda' muddled, 'sorry to say....

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